1983 Timeline

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KCportland
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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by KCportland »

Wow, had no idea Czechoslovak Song/Where Is England?, Pouring Rain and Before We Go Forward were demoed before they fired Mick. I wonder if Mick was unaware of these sessions at the time or if he simply didn't show up?

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Kory »

KCportland wrote:
11 Feb 2021, 10:09pm
Wow, had no idea Czechoslovak Song/Where Is England?, Pouring Rain and Before We Go Forward were demoed before they fired Mick. I wonder if Mick was unaware of these sessions at the time or if he simply didn't show up?
If he showed up, I bet he was late.
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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Red Angel »

A sad chronology of an agony, thanks :meh:
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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Low Down Low »

Small point, but when Pete said he hadnt heard from anyone for 4 months after the us festival, does he mean that literally? The very next entry is the band regathering for rehearsals in mid june. Unless he was absent from them or something.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by dave202 »

Low Down Low wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 6:43am
Small point, but when Pete said he hadnt heard from anyone for 4 months after the us festival, does he mean that literally? The very next entry is the band regathering for rehearsals in mid june. Unless he was absent from them or something.
One of the consistent things about the story of The Clash is the inconsistency in the telling of the stories, and this a chronology of accounts from different sources and different viewpoints. It is explained, "There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate."

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Re: 1983 Timeline

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dave202 wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 7:53am
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 6:43am
Small point, but when Pete said he hadnt heard from anyone for 4 months after the us festival, does he mean that literally? The very next entry is the band regathering for rehearsals in mid june. Unless he was absent from them or something.
One of the consistent things about the story of The Clash is the inconsistency in the telling of the stories, and this a chronology of accounts from different sources and different viewpoints. It is explained, "There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate."
Oh yeah, for sure, i wasn't having a go at the post or anything, just curious about what pete said which would seem to be one of those inconsistencies. But like i said, just a minor point in the larger scheme of things really.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

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Low Down Low wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 8:34am
dave202 wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 7:53am
Low Down Low wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 6:43am
Small point, but when Pete said he hadnt heard from anyone for 4 months after the us festival, does he mean that literally? The very next entry is the band regathering for rehearsals in mid june. Unless he was absent from them or something.
One of the consistent things about the story of The Clash is the inconsistency in the telling of the stories, and this a chronology of accounts from different sources and different viewpoints. It is explained, "There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate."
Oh yeah, for sure, i wasn't having a go at the post or anything, just curious about what pete said which would seem to be one of those inconsistencies. But like i said, just a minor point in the larger scheme of things really.

Yeah, the inconsistencies are def frustrating. Lets say The Clash return from the US on June 1st, '83. By August, we have 3 demos (Czech/Pouring/Before). It's implied Joe and Paul were rehearsing that summer as they publicly acknowledged their frustration with Mick being late. I'd think they'd have their drummer present during rehearsals. However, it's possible Pete doesn't show til the end of August to lay down drum tracks. But Mick DOES show up to rehearsals throughout that summer - would they really jam and work on song construction with no drummer?

Also, Trans Cash Free Pay One has Mick music and Strummer lyrics on tape: "Somewhere there’s a tape of the music of 'The Bottom Line' with the lyrics of Joe Strummer, but I have no idea where it is," Jones said. "It would be quite interesting for me to hear it, though." Link: https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_ ... jones.html Was this strictly "Mick music" with a Joe guide vocal or was it a full band track (bass, drum, guitar, synths, etc)?

There also seems to be early stages of The Dictator with partial Mick involvement.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5833&start=15
Rat Patrol wrote:
08 Jun 2010, 6:08pm
Well, and also the fact that these were generally written, arranged, and rehearsed when the band was just Joe, Paul, and Pete. Nick was only around for a couple of weeks to add his parts. Some of these were Spring/Summer '83 Joe songs that Mick never got around to doing a thing with while he was doing...whatever it was he was doing. Dictator at least was a partial Strummer-Jones composition, although Mick either didn't write much of a guitar part for it or it was chucked aside after he left. Most were written and rehearsed between August and November rhythm section-only. Nick did pretty well learning that much new material in a short span and adding guitar parts, but it's not surprising that the most fully-developed parts were the riffs and drums. And that they didn't have an arranger's touch, as the biggest flaw in a lot of the songs is that they have pretty abrupt beginnings and ends. In fact, there's a pretty distinct divergence between ones like Are You Ready which has a well-woven beginning, end, solos, and all the fixins...and one like Rock 'n Roll City that just launches into and out of a riff. I won't speculate on the ones Mick may have touched (although Are You Ready seems a cut above most others song construction-wise), but it may point to the ones Nick did the most work on. I can't picture solo Joe songwriter knowing how to wrap a song idea up in a bow like that. He was a riffs guy, pure and simple. Even on songs where he wrote the majority of the music, he still needed that arranger guy to take the idea to completion.
Before Mick is fired we're already 5 songs deep into the Combat Rock follow-up.
Hello? Go ahead, man. Yeah I'd just like to say, um, lets have some music now, huh? Ok, ok...thank you.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

I wouldn’t take the dates assigned to those 1983 demos as gospel. They were dodging around Sony with the 001 box set. Note they are not credited to “The Clash”. As for Trans Cash Free Pay One, Joe later gave a cassette copy of it (with other rarities) to a friend of his in New York. I made a try to hear it from that friend once several years ago but it wasn’t to hand. I didn’t realize Mick didn’t have a copy. I would guess there’s still a copy in Joe’s cassette stash.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Kory »

Come on, Mick knows exactly where it is :lol:
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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Heston »

Kory wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 6:28pm
Come on, Mick knows exactly where it is :lol:
:lol:
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: 1983 Timeline

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YoungParisians wrote:
10 Feb 2021, 3:03pm
I recently went through all the chapters about 1983 from the various Clash books I have (plus any '83 references I could find on this board). I wanted to make sense of this "final" year. There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate.

What's your source for the August 29 date? I believe it, I just would like to read the material.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by Heston »

IkarisOne wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 7:19pm
YoungParisians wrote:
10 Feb 2021, 3:03pm
I recently went through all the chapters about 1983 from the various Clash books I have (plus any '83 references I could find on this board). I wanted to make sense of this "final" year. There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate.

What's your source for the August 29 date? I believe it, I just would like to read the material.
I'm just going by memory here, but wasn't Mick sacked before the Notting Hill Carnival, which would put it just prior to the 29th?
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by IkarisOne »

Heston wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 8:12pm
IkarisOne wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 7:19pm
YoungParisians wrote:
10 Feb 2021, 3:03pm
I recently went through all the chapters about 1983 from the various Clash books I have (plus any '83 references I could find on this board). I wanted to make sense of this "final" year. There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate.

What's your source for the August 29 date? I believe it, I just would like to read the material.
I'm just going by memory here, but wasn't Mick sacked before the Notting Hill Carnival, which would put it just prior to the 29th?
My understanding is that it was during it. And Monday does make sense as the day as it's a traditional day for firing.

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by white man »

Kory wrote:
12 Feb 2021, 6:28pm
Come on, Mick knows exactly where it is :lol:
Smoke and Mirrors

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Re: 1983 Timeline

Post by FarawayTowns »

IkarisOne wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 9:09pm
Heston wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 8:12pm
IkarisOne wrote:
21 Feb 2021, 7:19pm
YoungParisians wrote:
10 Feb 2021, 3:03pm
I recently went through all the chapters about 1983 from the various Clash books I have (plus any '83 references I could find on this board). I wanted to make sense of this "final" year. There seemed to be a lot of foggy memories in these books so some entries may be inaccurate.

What's your source for the August 29 date? I believe it, I just would like to read the material.
I'm just going by memory here, but wasn't Mick sacked before the Notting Hill Carnival, which would put it just prior to the 29th?
My understanding is that it was during it. And Monday does make sense as the day as it's a traditional day for firing.
I was told by someone who knows the band that they first heard about Mick being fired via rumours during the carnival.

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