Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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WestwayKid
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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by WestwayKid »

This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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WestwayKid wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 3:49pm
This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

That book I'm reading reproduces it as a transcript. Serious wow factor to it all.

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 6:57pm
WestwayKid wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 3:49pm
This is a fascinating and disturbing listen:

That book I'm reading reproduces it as a transcript. Serious wow factor to it all.

As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.
Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.
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Flex
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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 6:57pm
As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.
Oh, I would definitely trade the beach boys catalog if it meant letting the Wilsons grow up to lead lives free of abuse. Maybe they achieve creative success anyways, maybe not, but human carnage is rarely "worth it" in my book.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Silent Majority wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:07pm
Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.
I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Silent Majority »

Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:07pm
Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.
I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
Yeah, we can still enjoy it hugely! Soiled, for me, doesn't mean unsalvageable - as my boxers drawer will attest. Brian's fight to create is inspiring and his artistic quest improves the context of those records. I listen to whatever version is best of Smile, and I think, among the achievements, "What a pity."
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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Silent Majority wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 10:43am
Yeah, we can still enjoy it hugely! Soiled, for me, doesn't mean unsalvageable - as my boxers drawer will attest. Brian's fight to create is inspiring and his artistic quest improves the context of those records. I listen to whatever version is best of Smile, and I think, among the achievements, "What a pity."
I, also, hugely enjoy your boxers.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:08pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 6:57pm
As to my question, while I agree with you both, I end up coming back to the question of whether it was worth it. Yes, fantastic music, success, etc etc, but Brian's emotional problems, Dennis' descent into self-destructive behaviour. I try to balance these things off and struggle with justifying the human toll.
Oh, I would definitely trade the beach boys catalog if it meant letting the Wilsons grow up to lead lives free of abuse. Maybe they achieve creative success anyways, maybe not, but human carnage is rarely "worth it" in my book.
100%. Brian comes across as someone who probably wasn't meant for stardom. I think being Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys has taken a lot from him. I think it's still taking a lot from him. I'm not convinced he's all that keen on touring. I think he has people telling him he needs to tour for a variety of reasons, but my gut says he'd be happier on his couch watching baseball.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Silent Majority wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:07pm
Nah, no art, no matter how elevated, or enriching, is worth the unreasonable pain of the artist. That alone soils the beauty. A perfect production can be made imperfect if its gestation left the creators worse than when they started.
I agree with the first sentence but I'm not sure if I agree with the second or third, or maybe I just think of it on different terms. Maybe its not about whether the music is soiled or not because of how it was created (although it certainly can be, in specific instances) but about how we listen and appreciate it. Thinking of the beach boys specifically, so much of being a fan of the band (at least in the 21st century) is about appreciating the strength and perseverance of Brian and the gang, even in the face of pain and tragedy. I think, in some ways, that celebration enhances rather than detracts from the music. I can't know with absolute certainty, but I suspect it would pain someone like Brian Wilson to know that his suffering rendered his art "spoiled" for a listener rather than his pain at least producing something a person could hear and connect to with love.

Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
I agree with this. There is a definite element of celebrating that they're still here. It blew my mind (in a good way) when Brian turned 80 last year. Who would have thought that would ever happen. He's been through hell and back again more than once.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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WestwayKid wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 11:05am
It blew my mind (in a good way) when Brian turned 80 last year. Who would have thought that would ever happen. He's been through hell and back again more than once.
That he'd be the last Wilson standing is almost perverse. But you just know that MIke fucking Love will be the last Beach Boy to prove … something.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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matedog wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 11:55am
Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.
My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

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WestwayKid wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 1:04pm
matedog wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 11:55am
Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.
My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.
I can never do that, even with artists I love. Shit is shit and I have a hard time rationalizing it. :meh:
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 1:09pm
WestwayKid wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 1:04pm
matedog wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 11:55am
Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.
My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.
I can never do that, even with artists I love. Shit is shit and I have a hard time rationalizing it. :meh:
I think there's a big difference between creative people (or at least people whose creativity you vibe with) making bad music and bland morons making bad music. I'll spend time finding interesting stuff in a bad beach boys period because there's stuff to find, but I don't think there's anything of creative value in a Nickelback album (for example). It's why there's stuff to sift through and enjoy even in low periods of the clash/Joe strummer/mick Jones' creativity, at least to me.

I'd also make a distinction, not that you're suggesting otherwise but just for the record, between appreciating the good within the bad and pretending the bad is actually good. It's the difference between finding something of value in cut the crap and actually thinking it's a good record.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: Flex's Takes: The Beach Boys

Post by matedog »

WestwayKid wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 1:04pm
matedog wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 11:55am
Flex wrote:
26 Jan 2023, 7:52pm
Tangentially, I think this is part of why fans of the band tend to even love the stuff that's pretty shit, because it's as much about loving Brian and the rest as anything, and you can still do that even with the crap records.
This actually makes sense to me why there is love for a period that I just can't understand.
My philosophy for their worst periods is "hey, but it's still the Beach Boys" and that allows me to at least find something decent.
I find it sorta like how I continue to listen to Weezer. I can still find traces of what I love from those first two albums in all their work. Sometimes the traces are bigger than others.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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