If I only want to gain knowledge from reading a book I could go to a library. I might find the info online but if I want to read that book again maybe as a reference then I'll buy the book. Yes I could download all my music but that does not quench my need for more than just the Music. There is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from informative sleeve notes and the record label etc . The download doesn't cheapen the listening experience but without the whole package it definitely lessens the learning experience that I personally find valuable.
If the download contains a pdf of the sleeve or booklet, would that solve the objection? I'm curious whether what you actually want here is the tactile experience rather than information. Plenty of people argue that that's key—more with books than music—and while I don't get it myself, I can't deny that it must be important given how many people feel that way.
It would work with a pdf. Although I personally prefer a sleeve or booklet with pictures and so on. I often scan the artwork to use further down the line for other projects. I have a huge music collection that I've collected over the years. A lot of it will not be reproduced as a download. I don't get the same thrill from a download as I do from holding a physical item. This is just my preference. A record or book can be a beautiful thing you can't say that about a download. Practicality and personal preference is how I feel about it.
Hello,
I am much more in line with the tactile experience of a book. I have a nook (whatever the B&N ebook reader is called) but I much prefer the physical - when I read a segment I want to refer to, I'll bend the page to let me know to return to that thought. Music used to be that way - running home from the record co-op on campus and ripping the plastic off the record, putting the vinyl on and checking out whatever liner notes or whatever was with the record, and listening to the record first to last track. As I'm much more mobile now, I listen where ever I am. I still try to go from first track all the way to last track to get the complete experience of an album although I miss out on the liner notes bit. I can't imagine any young person making a deliberate effort to listen from beginning to end of an album without interruption - that definitely sounds like a grumpy old guy.
I gather many young people prefer seeing a movie in the theater to streaming it at home but wouldn't prefer seeing a band live to streaming - too messy, the sound is different/rougher, etc.
I agree with your points a few posts back but I might consider other terms. Rather than scarcity, specialness or uniqueness (okay, perhaps not a real word) - something different. Granted, elitism does creep in.
Yeah, what's wrong with whatever is on streaming services or the radio? Do you really need anything else? And while we're at it why go to that restaurant, sandwich or pizza place whose name I don't recognize from commercials. Surely if they were any good they'd have an advertising campaign of some sort. I really prefer not to think about such things so I'll take the Taylor Swift with a big mac and a Bud Light. It all MUST be good because everyone else is doing it.
It's a weird thing to me that in four years of teaching that cultural history of rock seminar, with maybe 80 students total, there were probably only a dozen who I'd describe as music geeks. One kid told me he'd been waiting his entire life to be able to take a class like that and he was seriously into it (he was also a drummer, so he did have some serious flaws in his character). That's the kind of attitude I would have had. It's not that I'm disappointed exactly, but surprised that the kind of people taking a class like that wouldn't be more passionate and curious about music. Maybe music is all background noise now?
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
Yeah, what's wrong with whatever is on streaming services or the radio? Do you really need anything else? And while we're at it why go to that restaurant, sandwich or pizza place whose name I don't recognize from commercials. Surely if they were any good they'd have an advertising campaign of some sort. I really prefer not to think about such things so I'll take the Taylor Swift with a big mac and a Bud Light. It all MUST be good because everyone else is doing it.
It's a weird thing to me that in four years of teaching that cultural history of rock seminar, with maybe 80 students total, there were probably only a dozen who I'd describe as music geeks. One kid told me he'd been waiting his entire life to be able to take a class like that and he was seriously into it (he was also a drummer, so he did have some serious flaws in his character). That's the kind of attitude I would have had. It's not that I'm disappointed exactly, but surprised that the kind of people taking a class like that wouldn't be more passionate and curious about music. Maybe music is all background noise now?
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
The problem is in expecting people to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives without giving them any kind of life experience. But it does mean that colleges often get double tuition when they have to return at age 30, so it's probably intentional.
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Yes but damn sight easier than doing a law degree when you aren’t interested in it or being a lawyer.
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Yes but damn sight easier than doing a law degree when you aren’t interested in it or being a lawyer.
Well, maybe. A PhD in any field is a shit-ton of work. Harder than a law degree? I dunno.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Hello,
Fortunately, my experiences are different - especially with graduate students. Most grad students I deal with are looking to get into collegiate coaching so they tend to have a few years working post-undergrad under their belts. That makes a tremendous difference from my perspective. The students have an idea of potential application of theories I teach. It may be the immediacy of this application which helps engage them. I must ask "How would you use/apply this?" multiple times each week. Each discipline brings it's own pro's and con's. My con's are students who say "This stuff is just a theory - it doesn't really work in practice." Luckily, I have enough practical experience to provide examples of application (it's kind of hard to argue with a couple of national championships).
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Yes but damn sight easier than doing a law degree when you aren’t interested in it or being a lawyer.
Well, maybe. A PhD in any field is a shit-ton of work. Harder than a law degree? I dunno.
Sorry I meant it was a damn sight easier to do a degree in Art History or photography if you weren’t interested in the subject than doing a law degree.
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Yes but damn sight easier than doing a law degree when you aren’t interested in it or being a lawyer.
Well, maybe. A PhD in any field is a shit-ton of work. Harder than a law degree? I dunno.
Sorry I meant it was a damn sight easier to do a degree in Art History or photography if you weren’t interested in the subject than doing a law degree.
Ah, gotcha.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Hello,
Fortunately, my experiences are different - especially with graduate students. Most grad students I deal with are looking to get into collegiate coaching so they tend to have a few years working post-undergrad under their belts. That makes a tremendous difference from my perspective. The students have an idea of potential application of theories I teach. It may be the immediacy of this application which helps engage them. I must ask "How would you use/apply this?" multiple times each week. Each discipline brings it's own pro's and con's. My con's are students who say "This stuff is just a theory - it doesn't really work in practice." Luckily, I have enough practical experience to provide examples of application (it's kind of hard to argue with a couple of national championships).
That must be so satisfying, having students who are hungry for what you're sharing. I've occasionally "scolded" students by saying that once they have a real job, odds are their boss isn't going to want them to entertain their imagination, to plain old be curious and ask weird questions. This is probably the last shot, so take it. But most are mercenary—all they want to know is what it takes to pass the class and nothing more. Such a waste.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Hello,
Fortunately, my experiences are different - especially with graduate students. Most grad students I deal with are looking to get into collegiate coaching so they tend to have a few years working post-undergrad under their belts. That makes a tremendous difference from my perspective. The students have an idea of potential application of theories I teach. It may be the immediacy of this application which helps engage them. I must ask "How would you use/apply this?" multiple times each week. Each discipline brings it's own pro's and con's. My con's are students who say "This stuff is just a theory - it doesn't really work in practice." Luckily, I have enough practical experience to provide examples of application (it's kind of hard to argue with a couple of national championships).
That must be so satisfying, having students who are hungry for what you're sharing. I've occasionally "scolded" students by saying that once they have a real job, odds are their boss isn't going to want them to entertain their imagination, to plain old be curious and ask weird questions. This is probably the last shot, so take it. But most are mercenary—all they want to know is what it takes to pass the class and nothing more. Such a waste.
School is the same. It is all about how to get through the qualifications / exams / assessments, tactically, not the knowledge of the subject.
It amazes me how many young people do degrees in Art History yet have no interest in art. I think it is perceived as an easy degree course.
I have a relative who did a photography degree, don’t think she ever owned a camera. She only takes selfies on an iPhone.
That's one thing that surprises, and saddens, me—the lack of intellectual curiosity and passion for being challenged. And I don't even mean undergrads. Most grad students I've encountered show little curiosity beyond their narrow topic. No interest in reading outside their area, unable to inquire into other people's work, let alone offer meaningful observations. It's all so bloodless—I just want the degree. The work is hard enough when you're really into it, I can't imagine how tough it is when you don't love it.
Hello,
Fortunately, my experiences are different - especially with graduate students. Most grad students I deal with are looking to get into collegiate coaching so they tend to have a few years working post-undergrad under their belts. That makes a tremendous difference from my perspective. The students have an idea of potential application of theories I teach. It may be the immediacy of this application which helps engage them. I must ask "How would you use/apply this?" multiple times each week. Each discipline brings it's own pro's and con's. My con's are students who say "This stuff is just a theory - it doesn't really work in practice." Luckily, I have enough practical experience to provide examples of application (it's kind of hard to argue with a couple of national championships).
That must be so satisfying, having students who are hungry for what you're sharing. I've occasionally "scolded" students by saying that once they have a real job, odds are their boss isn't going to want them to entertain their imagination, to plain old be curious and ask weird questions. This is probably the last shot, so take it. But most are mercenary—all they want to know is what it takes to pass the class and nothing more. Such a waste.
On one hand i find that sad but when i think about it, it's at least more than i myself brought to my own college education which was a rugged determination to get as drunk for as long and cheaply as possible and not to hopelessly drown when i was suddenly thrown into this ocean of female talent i thought only existed in my dreams. So i basically squandered that chance, ended up in shit jobs for years and have never stopped regretting it even though rediscovering that yearning for education through adult learning courses has helped redress that balance. Still haunted though, in a course i loved and just wasted it. Did have some fun times all the same, so there is that too!
On one hand i find that sad but when i think about it, it's at least more than i myself brought to my own college education which was a rugged determination to get as drunk for as long and cheaply as possible and not to hopelessly drown when i was suddenly thrown into this ocean of female talent i thought only existed in my dreams. So i basically squandered that chance, ended up in shit jobs for years and have never stopped regretting it even though rediscovering that yearning for education through adult learning courses has helped redress that balance. Still haunted though, in a course i loved and just wasted it. Did have some fun times all the same, so there is that too!
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I don't want to seem a scold who rejects any kind of social life at that age. It's in no small part in reaction to my own concerted efforts to let students be imaginative and, as much as possible, let them read and write about the stuff that means the most to them. It's like opening the door to the cage and telling them to run around, and instead they sit glumly in the cage. I fully understand that I'm always going to be the most enthusiastic dork in the classroom, whatever the topic (honestly, I'd probably do this shit for free), but it's disheartening how many are just killing time rather than come up with odd questions. Shit is supposed to be hard but it's also supposed to be fun.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
