Poor guy. I hope he has some kind of support, however effective it might be.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 8:07pmAfter I finished the book, I revisited an interview that a friend of mine conducted with PM around ten years ago, and he was utterly charming. It was done as a Skype because PM lives in Turkey, so my buddy sent me the video, and my memory was that he seemed in great humour, which is how the text read. It's hard not to think that there's something biochemical going on there.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 7:43pmThe recent reports of him throwing bottles at his audience would back this up.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 7:10pmSpeaking of asshole singers, last night I finished David J's Bauhaus memoir (mentioned above). Peter Murphy comes off as having some serious personality problems. He'd go from pleasant to deeply despondent and possibly suicidal to, as David J writes, Mr. Hyde. Totally belligerent to everyone around, massive chip on his shoulder, paranoid, treating the rest of the band as side men. Yet, J certainly doesn't deny his ability as a mesmerizing front man. But the psychological cost of being around him was so great that the rest of them nixed a world tour that would have made them all quite wealthy. If J is accurate, there's some psychological illness at work there.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 6:35pmI think a lot of interviewers would say he crossed that line back at the beginning of PiL.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 2:14pm
Unfortunately yes. Not sure when, but he crossed the line from curmudgeon to asshole.
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Re: Public Image Limited
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Re: Public Image Limited
I will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 6:35pmI think a lot of interviewers would say he crossed that line back at the beginning of PiL.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 2:14pmUnfortunately yes. Not sure when, but he crossed the line from curmudgeon to asshole.
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Re: Public Image Limited
I can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 6:24amI will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 6:35pmI think a lot of interviewers would say he crossed that line back at the beginning of PiL.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 2:14pmUnfortunately yes. Not sure when, but he crossed the line from curmudgeon to asshole.
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Re: Public Image Limited
I'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00amI can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 6:24amI will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 6:35pmI think a lot of interviewers would say he crossed that line back at the beginning of PiL.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 2:14pmUnfortunately yes. Not sure when, but he crossed the line from curmudgeon to asshole.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
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Re: Public Image Limited
Career-wise, yes, he was able to make it functional and productive. I'm thinking more as a person, going from curmudgeon to asshole.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:07amI'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00amI can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 6:24amI will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.Kory wrote: ↑06 Sep 2019, 6:35pmI think a lot of interviewers would say he crossed that line back at the beginning of PiL.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑03 Sep 2019, 2:14pm
Unfortunately yes. Not sure when, but he crossed the line from curmudgeon to asshole.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
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Re: Public Image Limited
No not in '78. For me at least John became a caricature of himself much later on.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:13amCareer-wise, yes, he was able to make it functional and productive. I'm thinking more as a person, going from curmudgeon to asshole.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:07amI'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00amI can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 6:24amI will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Public Image Limited
But that's the question—when did it happen (and why)? If it's not related to what happened in '77 or '78, what changed?Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:19amNo not in '78. For me at least John became a caricature of himself much later on.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:13amCareer-wise, yes, he was able to make it functional and productive. I'm thinking more as a person, going from curmudgeon to asshole.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:07amI'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00amI can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 6:24am
I will add an awful lot of interviewers from 1978 were total wankers. So many had it in for John and tried all sorts of character assassinations on him. It's no wonder his guard was up a lot of the time.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Public Image Limited
Years of having his arse kisser?Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:54amBut that's the question—when did it happen (and why)? If it's not related to what happened in '77 or '78, what changed?Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:19amNo not in '78. For me at least John became a caricature of himself much later on.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:13amCareer-wise, yes, he was able to make it functional and productive. I'm thinking more as a person, going from curmudgeon to asshole.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:07amI'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00am
I can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
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Re: Public Image Limited
Pick your own year. For me I say 1986 when Cook & Jones sided with John and they won the money/royalties from McLaren/Glitterbest and the Swindle court case.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:54amBut that's the question—when did it happen (and why)? If it's not related to what happened in '77 or '78, what changed?Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:19amNo not in '78. For me at least John became a caricature of himself much later on.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:13amCareer-wise, yes, he was able to make it functional and productive. I'm thinking more as a person, going from curmudgeon to asshole.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:07amI'm not sure that broke him. John was smart and knew how to play the game. He was getting shot from all sides his band/manager/the press etc. Fans expecting PiL to be the Sex Pistols mk II all were very wrong about John. He utilized what he had to great effect and forged ahead.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:00am
I can certainly appreciate and sympathize that Lydon was seriously traumatized by 1977 in the wake of Grundy. He was the face of the band, the one with the weird name, and quick to take the bait. He got the shit from the public and the ravenous scandal press. If something permanently broke in him, that's horrible. A shame that he never seemingly recovered from that.
I don't like his actions much these days but the Rotten/Lydon of '78 was an immense presence.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Public Image Limited
So victory over his enemy made him a shithead? That would seem like a liberating moment to me, but who knows.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 8:15amPick your own year. For me I say 1986 when Cook & Jones sided with John and they won the money/royalties from McLaren/Glitterbest and the Swindle court case.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:54amBut that's the question—when did it happen (and why)? If it's not related to what happened in '77 or '78, what changed?
Or, related, maybe when Levene left and PiL was fully the Johnny Rotten show. He was always the star, but now there was definitely no sharing the spotlight.
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Re: Public Image Limited
John is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 8:28amSo victory over his enemy made him a shithead? That would seem like a liberating moment to me, but who knows.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 8:15amPick your own year. For me I say 1986 when Cook & Jones sided with John and they won the money/royalties from McLaren/Glitterbest and the Swindle court case.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 7:54amBut that's the question—when did it happen (and why)? If it's not related to what happened in '77 or '78, what changed?
Or, related, maybe when Levene left and PiL was fully the Johnny Rotten show. He was always the star, but now there was definitely no sharing the spotlight.
Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
Forces have been looting
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Curfews have been curbing
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No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Public Image Limited
Of course. I only meant that they were forceful personalities in the group that battled each other. Maybe not keeping Lydon in check per se, but there was still the fiction of the band as a company of equals. Once Lydon was the last man standing, he had nobody to answer to.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:04amJohn is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.
Okay, I see what you mean. Everything sort of becomes past tense from that point, about how he was done wrong and beat the bastards.Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
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Re: Public Image Limited
Yep that's how I see things. John had an assured kind of us versus them arrogance at first and he said stuff against those in power that to my young ears made a lot of sense. But then after the court case it appeared to be all me me me oh clever me.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:14amOf course. I only meant that they were forceful personalities in the group that battled each other. Maybe not keeping Lydon in check per se, but there was still the fiction of the band as a company of equals. Once Lydon was the last man standing, he had nobody to answer to.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:04amJohn is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.
Okay, I see what you mean. Everything sort of becomes past tense from that point, about how he was done wrong and beat the bastards.Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
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Re: Public Image Limited
Levene and Wob were both off their nuts with the smack. But Levene-- for all his countless faults-- supplied the magic. It was never recaptured no matter how great McGeoch and Edmonds were/are. You can hear vague echoes in some of Levene's later stuff but it's clear the Muses abandoned him.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:14amOf course. I only meant that they were forceful personalities in the group that battled each other. Maybe not keeping Lydon in check per se, but there was still the fiction of the band as a company of equals. Once Lydon was the last man standing, he had nobody to answer to.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:04amJohn is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.
Okay, I see what you mean. Everything sort of becomes past tense from that point, about how he was done wrong and beat the bastards.Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
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Re: Public Image Limited
After Lydon split from Wobble and Levene, his work never again seemed pathbreaking or iconoclastic or whatever. Where others used to await his records to wonder what was new, how PiL was going shake things up, now he was just adding to or confirming what was already out there. The McGeoch/Edmonds PiL made fine enough alternative pop records, but musically it wasn't terribly distinct, apart from Lydon's voice. "Rise" was the song that changed my life—I'd been a faithful Top 40 drone until I heard it and dove headfirst into all manner of alternative music—but I can now tell that it was just good alternative pop amongst all kinds of other alternative pop at the time. Maybe Marky's right that slaying McLaren in the court case took the fire out of him and he didn't again surround himself with people who helped him push himself, but it became a lot more, well, superficial, including the exaggerated Rotten persona. Enh. We'll always have '76–82.IkarisOne wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 12:33pmLevene and Wob were both off their nuts with the smack. But Levene-- for all his countless faults-- supplied the magic. It was never recaptured no matter how great McGeoch and Edmonds were/are. You can hear vague echoes in some of Levene's later stuff but it's clear the Muses abandoned him.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:14amOf course. I only meant that they were forceful personalities in the group that battled each other. Maybe not keeping Lydon in check per se, but there was still the fiction of the band as a company of equals. Once Lydon was the last man standing, he had nobody to answer to.Marky Dread wrote: ↑07 Sep 2019, 9:04amJohn is painted the bad guy when the likes of Wobble and Levene left PiL but Wobble was no saint and Levene a junkie.
Okay, I see what you mean. Everything sort of becomes past tense from that point, about how he was done wrong and beat the bastards.Victory didn't make him a shithead but he always appeared worse when he wasn't fighting against stuff. Battle over and victory won John shouts loudest and then for years later let's everyone know.
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft