The Spirit Of St Louis

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DocDoofus
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The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by DocDoofus » 13 Jun 2018, 2:58am

Hello gang,
Long-time lurker, first time in town...I spotted this new interview with Ellen Foley about her heavily Clash-related album last week. Haven't seen it coming up on here, so:
https://damienlove.com/writing/sandinis ... ash-album/

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by Heston » 13 Jun 2018, 3:23am

Good read, thanks.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by eumaas » 13 Jun 2018, 10:05am

Sounds like the boys were more than a bit domineering.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by matedog » 13 Jun 2018, 11:49am

DocDoofus wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 2:58am
Hello gang,
Long-time lurker, first time in town...I spotted this new interview with Ellen Foley about her heavily Clash-related album last week. Haven't seen it coming up on here, so:
https://damienlove.com/writing/sandinis ... ash-album/
Thanks for posting. That confirmed my suspicions that it was recorded in the Sandinista flurry.

But yeah, interesting input regarding how it could have been better had Mick modified things to her vocal range.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by JennyB » 13 Jun 2018, 12:08pm

eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 10:05am
Sounds like the boys were more than a bit domineering.
It sounds like it was mainly Mick, though.
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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by eumaas » 13 Jun 2018, 12:12pm

JennyB wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 12:08pm
eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 10:05am
Sounds like the boys were more than a bit domineering.
It sounds like it was mainly Mick, though.
Sure, but the whole thing seems like just a creative exercise for them with Foley along for the ride. Not trying to be harsh about it! They were all young people. And anyway we don't know that she would've had much of a career if she did follow up her debut with something more like it.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by Flex » 13 Jun 2018, 12:24pm

Interesting. Foley comes away sounding like she has really good perspective on that small slice of her life. Some stuff was good, some stuff didn't work out, clear eyed but not bitter about some of the things that may have been a mistake or that she felt forced into. Her comments about the band are actually mostly warm, which is nice.

It's not exactly surprising that, at the end of the day, the Clash just didn't really know how to make this kind of record, much as they might have wanted to.
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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by matedog » 13 Jun 2018, 12:57pm

Every few years I enthusiastically revisit this album thinking, "a lost Clash album! Torchlight is great! There must be more hidden gems!" and then I relisten and am always let down.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by Flex » 13 Jun 2018, 1:08pm

matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 12:57pm
Every few years I enthusiastically revisit this album thinking, "a lost Clash album! Torchlight is great! There must be more hidden gems!" and then I relisten and am always let down.
Turns out, playing the music in the right key for Ellen to sing in may not have been such a that will americana for humbug move after all.
"I live inside my own heart, Matt Damon." - Prince

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by matedog » 13 Jun 2018, 1:12pm

Flex wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:08pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 12:57pm
Every few years I enthusiastically revisit this album thinking, "a lost Clash album! Torchlight is great! There must be more hidden gems!" and then I relisten and am always let down.
Turns out, playing the music in the right key for Ellen to sing in may not have been such a that will americana for humbug move after all.
Yeah, I mean it wouldn't elevate the album to "good", but some of her awkward low notes might be less awkward.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by eumaas » 13 Jun 2018, 1:14pm

I think it's absolutely hilarious that they didn't know what a key is, yet were trying to encompass all genres of music.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by matedog » 13 Jun 2018, 1:26pm

eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:14pm
I think it's absolutely hilarious that they didn't know what a key is, yet were trying to encompass all genres of music.
I don't get how you can create musically "normal" chord progressions without understanding how key signature works. Granted, some of their more unorthodox progressions seem to suggest they were going with what sounds good vs. what are traditional progressions. Like I'm So Bored just incorporates I, IV, and V chords in Emaj but then throws in a C maj chord in the chorus.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by eumaas » 13 Jun 2018, 1:28pm

matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:26pm
eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:14pm
I think it's absolutely hilarious that they didn't know what a key is, yet were trying to encompass all genres of music.
I don't get how you can create musically "normal" chord progressions without understanding how key signature works. Granted, some of their more unorthodox progressions seem to suggest they were going with what sounds good vs. what are traditional progressions. Like I'm So Bored just incorporates I, IV, and V chords in Emaj but then throws in a C maj chord in the chorus.
I think they were just intuitively picking chords. I mean, the kinds of cadences you get with I, IV, and V are familiar to everyone. You don't need to know what a key is to just find the cadence you're looking for.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by matedog » 13 Jun 2018, 1:35pm

eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:28pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:26pm
eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:14pm
I think it's absolutely hilarious that they didn't know what a key is, yet were trying to encompass all genres of music.
I don't get how you can create musically "normal" chord progressions without understanding how key signature works. Granted, some of their more unorthodox progressions seem to suggest they were going with what sounds good vs. what are traditional progressions. Like I'm So Bored just incorporates I, IV, and V chords in Emaj but then throws in a C maj chord in the chorus.
I think they were just intuitively picking chords. I mean, the kinds of cadences you get with I, IV, and V are familiar to everyone. You don't need to know what a key is to just find the cadence you're looking for.
Makes sense. It just seems like it would save time writing progressions to know "C goes to F" instead of "I'll start here and then when I barre chord in this way, it sounds familiar."
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Spirit Of St Louis

Post by eumaas » 13 Jun 2018, 1:38pm

matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:35pm
eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:28pm
matedog wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:26pm
eumaas wrote:
13 Jun 2018, 1:14pm
I think it's absolutely hilarious that they didn't know what a key is, yet were trying to encompass all genres of music.
I don't get how you can create musically "normal" chord progressions without understanding how key signature works. Granted, some of their more unorthodox progressions seem to suggest they were going with what sounds good vs. what are traditional progressions. Like I'm So Bored just incorporates I, IV, and V chords in Emaj but then throws in a C maj chord in the chorus.
I think they were just intuitively picking chords. I mean, the kinds of cadences you get with I, IV, and V are familiar to everyone. You don't need to know what a key is to just find the cadence you're looking for.
Makes sense. It just seems like it would save time writing progressions to know "C goes to F" instead of "I'll start here and then when I barre chord in this way, it sounds familiar."
My sister works like that. I couldn't believe it. She didn't know that a capo changes the chords too. I don't think she knew that a keyboard is just the same 12 notes repeating through the octaves either. I'm a highly analytical musician. I tend to build from the ground up, using theory the whole time. So that intuitive stuff is real foreign to me.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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