That makes me think of what I once read about PiL in the late 80s—once they (he) charted their own course and success came on their terms, but now the band sounded like any number of alternative acts of the time. Some good tunes here and there, but nothing especially distinct. (To a degree, the same could be said about Wire in the late 80s, too.)Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 4:24pmBowie was as you say "visually compelling" but always retained a certain artistic dignity with regards to his music. Up until "Let's Dance" he was the guy who led the way with innovative music but "Let's Dance" was definitely a stab at commercialism where previously he would find his success by breaking new ground. Nothing at all wrong with "Let's Dance" being a pop record as it contains some fine pop music. If you play Scary Monsters then play Let's Dance straight after it's like two different artists.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 3:18pmI can see why some regarded it that way, but the advent of MTV seemed perfect for a visually compelling artist, so releasing something that would get MTV play seems artistically justified.Wolter wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 2:43pmKind of a sell out. But it wasn't until he repeated himself but worse with Tonight that he lost most of them.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 2:16pmWas Let's Dance regarded as a sell-out by his ardent fans or was it treated as yet another sly reinvention? Or something else altogether?
The David Bowie is God Thread
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Yeah I think it's a criticism that can be levelled at a number of great bands/artists as they headed into the 80's and tried different sounds/technologies in order to compete in the pop arena. As you mentioned PiL I'll stck with them (him) one minute you sound like nobody else around and make an incredible ground breaking album (MB) then you need to do it all over again. Now Commercial Zone had some decent ideas and songs however Lydon is a lyricist not a song writer and it really showed when Levene quit and Lydon and Atkins put out TIWYWTIWYG ...sadly John it was what we got but defifinitely not what we wanted.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 5:39pmThat makes me think of what I once read about PiL in the late 80s—once they (he) charted their own course and success came on their terms, but now the band sounded like any number of alternative acts of the time. Some good tunes here and there, but nothing especially distinct. (To a degree, the same could be said about Wire in the late 80s, too.)Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 4:24pmBowie was as you say "visually compelling" but always retained a certain artistic dignity with regards to his music. Up until "Let's Dance" he was the guy who led the way with innovative music but "Let's Dance" was definitely a stab at commercialism where previously he would find his success by breaking new ground. Nothing at all wrong with "Let's Dance" being a pop record as it contains some fine pop music. If you play Scary Monsters then play Let's Dance straight after it's like two different artists.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 3:18pmI can see why some regarded it that way, but the advent of MTV seemed perfect for a visually compelling artist, so releasing something that would get MTV play seems artistically justified.Wolter wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 2:43pmKind of a sell out. But it wasn't until he repeated himself but worse with Tonight that he lost most of them.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 2:16pmWas Let's Dance regarded as a sell-out by his ardent fans or was it treated as yet another sly reinvention? Or something else altogether?
Also a lot of bands from the punk/new wave era became better musicians and wanted to expand their craft as song writers incorporating different sounds/textures so the agression was dropped and the initial sound becomes diluted. Personally I'm happy to hear No More Heroes and Golden Brown and I'm glad they both exist but those two styles are far removed from one another. For some fans it's too much to take that their fave band wants to progress their musicality and not keep churning out the same sound and sticking to the tried and tested formula. It also has to be said as people age their attitudes mellow and they become more established with families/motgages etc they have responsibilites so there is a greater need to make money and be successful. Paul Weller for example now has 8 children to pay for and he has said he can't afford to give up making music.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
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No fuchsias for you.
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
This is fair all around. It's also a lot to expect that an artist that has been pathbreaking early on can just plain be expected to keep it up. It's hard enough to be distinct once let alone twice, but to keep mucking it up is a crazy demand on an artist. So even if they don't consciously think about their bank account and kids, they're destined to settle into a groove of playing around with old successes or current trends. That doesn't mean they're not being creative, just not to the degree the fans loved them for in the first place. Lennon's comment about fans pining for the Beatles applies—those old records still exist and you can still play them when you want.Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 7:47pmAlso a lot of bands from the punk/new wave era became better musicians and wanted to expand their craft as song writers incorporating different sounds/textures so the agression was dropped and the initial sound becomes diluted. Personally I'm happy to hear No More Heroes and Golden Brown and I'm glad they both exist but those two styles are far removed from one another. For some fans it's too much to take that their fave band wants to progress their musicality and not keep churning out the same sound and sticking to the tried and tested formula. It also has to be said as people age their attitudes mellow and they become more established with families/motgages etc they have responsibilites so there is a greater need to make money and be successful. Paul Weller for example now has 8 children to pay for and he has said he can't afford to give up making music.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
I have often cited this JL quote to friends as I feel it captures things perfectly.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 8:04pmThis is fair all around. It's also a lot to expect that an artist that has been pathbreaking early on can just plain be expected to keep it up. It's hard enough to be distinct once let alone twice, but to keep mucking it up is a crazy demand on an artist. So even if they don't consciously think about their bank account and kids, they're destined to settle into a groove of playing around with old successes or current trends. That doesn't mean they're not being creative, just not to the degree the fans loved them for in the first place. Lennon's comment about fans pining for the Beatles applies—those old records still exist and you can still play them when you want.Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 7:47pmAlso a lot of bands from the punk/new wave era became better musicians and wanted to expand their craft as song writers incorporating different sounds/textures so the agression was dropped and the initial sound becomes diluted. Personally I'm happy to hear No More Heroes and Golden Brown and I'm glad they both exist but those two styles are far removed from one another. For some fans it's too much to take that their fave band wants to progress their musicality and not keep churning out the same sound and sticking to the tried and tested formula. It also has to be said as people age their attitudes mellow and they become more established with families/motgages etc they have responsibilites so there is a greater need to make money and be successful. Paul Weller for example now has 8 children to pay for and he has said he can't afford to give up making music.
Hey if you don't like what's on Tv don't kick the screen in just simply change channel or to turn it off and do something else.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
I get the sense that there can be a certain malaise around making music after you've been at it for a long time, especially at that level of innovation. You just get tired, and when you add grueling tour schedules and drugs in, it's a recipe for phoning it in. I get fed up with making music sometimes, and I only deal with half those issues.Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 8:12pmI have often cited this JL quote to friends as I feel it captures things perfectly.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 8:04pmThis is fair all around. It's also a lot to expect that an artist that has been pathbreaking early on can just plain be expected to keep it up. It's hard enough to be distinct once let alone twice, but to keep mucking it up is a crazy demand on an artist. So even if they don't consciously think about their bank account and kids, they're destined to settle into a groove of playing around with old successes or current trends. That doesn't mean they're not being creative, just not to the degree the fans loved them for in the first place. Lennon's comment about fans pining for the Beatles applies—those old records still exist and you can still play them when you want.Marky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 7:47pmAlso a lot of bands from the punk/new wave era became better musicians and wanted to expand their craft as song writers incorporating different sounds/textures so the agression was dropped and the initial sound becomes diluted. Personally I'm happy to hear No More Heroes and Golden Brown and I'm glad they both exist but those two styles are far removed from one another. For some fans it's too much to take that their fave band wants to progress their musicality and not keep churning out the same sound and sticking to the tried and tested formula. It also has to be said as people age their attitudes mellow and they become more established with families/motgages etc they have responsibilites so there is a greater need to make money and be successful. Paul Weller for example now has 8 children to pay for and he has said he can't afford to give up making music.
Hey if you don't like what's on Tv don't kick the screen in just simply change channel or to turn it off and do something else.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
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coffeepotman
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Words to live byMarky Dread wrote: ↑15 Jul 2017, 8:12pm
Hey if you don't like what's on Tv don't kick the screen in just simply change channel or to turn it off and do something else.
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
There is an ad on TV at the moment and it is backed by a girl singing Changes backed only by a piano. It is a beautiful version, I should find a link.
That is all.
That is all.
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
So tempted to buy the latest Bowie box set but I held off this time 'round. So glad I did as I've heard they've actually managed to fuck up "Heroes" with a mastering fault. Now that is totally unforgiveable.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
As a bonus feature, they refuse to admit it.Marky Dread wrote: ↑09 Oct 2017, 4:35pmSo tempted to buy the latest Bowie box set but I held off this time 'round. So glad I did as I've heard they've actually managed to fuck up "Heroes" with a mastering fault. Now that is totally unforgiveable.
Last edited by Kory on 27 Oct 2017, 12:37pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Heartily endorse this.
Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
As do I. And I got to see it live two months ago.
I love Gahan's voice so much. Like, a little too much.
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" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Excellent.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Silent Majority
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Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Listening to Bowie live is fascinating because the fact he taught himself how to sing listening to records played at wrong speeds really comes through.
Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Maybe that's my solution.Silent Majority wrote: ↑05 Nov 2017, 11:43amListening to Bowie live is fascinating because the fact he taught himself how to sing listening to records played at wrong speeds really comes through.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
Re: The David Bowie is God Thread
Becoming David Bowie?Kory wrote: ↑06 Nov 2017, 1:39pmMaybe that's my solution.Silent Majority wrote: ↑05 Nov 2017, 11:43amListening to Bowie live is fascinating because the fact he taught himself how to sing listening to records played at wrong speeds really comes through.