Yup, I was just answering the specific question.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:46pmIt's not just about different type fonts and different color. Correct distancing/spacing are equally vital. Also knowng when not to include something.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:34pmIt depends entirely on the application. These are all just tools in one's box for making design work, but I would say generally so. Design has a rich tradition of mixing fonts, and it's one of the hardest things to get right. But if the two lines were the same font, but still different colors, I would personally say that would be less effective that what they have now. But it all depends on context and intent. Different solutions in different environments, for sure.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:58pmSo common colour is a more important unifier than common typography?Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:45pmI can't think of another album which does it like this, but I don't know if I'd call it a faux pas. I might not have chosen that font, but they might have been trying to make a statement, meaning the the two separate elements are intentional ("germfree" is clean and orderly, "adolescents," both in life and typographically, is not). I'd also have chosen to have the two words in the same color to pull it together more, but I think the play for garishness may have been intentional too (although I think the original used different colors from this anyway).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:29pm
Is it generally a faux pas to use two different designs/fonts within the album title like that? Other than their close proximity, isn't it a signal that they are two separate elements?
Covering Album Covers
Re: Covering Album Covers
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Re: Covering Album Covers
This is taking the thread off-course, but, sure, I could fake it. People do that all the time. But I know it would be faked because I lack that knack, that eye. That talent just isn't in me anymore than I could write and perform a symphony. I'm creative in some ways, but visual art? Nope. That's not defeatist. It's respecting the people who do have the talent and not asserting membership in a club that I don't merit.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 3:42pmSure but to say you can't do it is so defeatest. Especially as you are the guy who likes all those indie albums with odd covers. I mean anyone could pick up a camera point it at something you like a go click. A tree or a branch taken up close or pattern on a rock and there's your cover art. There are no rules to what looks good. That even counts regarding the font. Once an artist picks a font they then become associated with it. The Smiths are a prime example of this.
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Re: Covering Album Covers
I simply can not agree with this attitude. For me it's about having a go. I see this as the whole ethos of the D.I.Y. ethic that punk brought about. Some of those record covers that were done on next to no budget are great. All it takes is an idea a little inspiration from something you maybe see everyday like a soap packet for example. Or maybe something that looks how your music sounds.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:14pmThis is taking the thread off-course, but, sure, I could fake it. People do that all the time. But I know it would be faked because I lack that knack, that eye. That talent just isn't in me anymore than I could write and perform a symphony. I'm creative in some ways, but visual art? Nope. That's not defeatist. It's respecting the people who do have the talent and not asserting membership in a club that I don't merit.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 3:42pmSure but to say you can't do it is so defeatest. Especially as you are the guy who likes all those indie albums with odd covers. I mean anyone could pick up a camera point it at something you like a go click. A tree or a branch taken up close or pattern on a rock and there's your cover art. There are no rules to what looks good. That even counts regarding the font. Once an artist picks a font they then become associated with it. The Smiths are a prime example of this.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: Covering Album Covers
For sure mate I realised that.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:13pmYup, I was just answering the specific question.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:46pmIt's not just about different type fonts and different color. Correct distancing/spacing are equally vital. Also knowng when not to include something.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:34pmIt depends entirely on the application. These are all just tools in one's box for making design work, but I would say generally so. Design has a rich tradition of mixing fonts, and it's one of the hardest things to get right. But if the two lines were the same font, but still different colors, I would personally say that would be less effective that what they have now. But it all depends on context and intent. Different solutions in different environments, for sure.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:58pmSo common colour is a more important unifier than common typography?Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:45pm
I can't think of another album which does it like this, but I don't know if I'd call it a faux pas. I might not have chosen that font, but they might have been trying to make a statement, meaning the the two separate elements are intentional ("germfree" is clean and orderly, "adolescents," both in life and typographically, is not). I'd also have chosen to have the two words in the same color to pull it together more, but I think the play for garishness may have been intentional too (although I think the original used different colors from this anyway).
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: Covering Album Covers
A lot of designers will vehemently and persistently tell you that what they do isn't art, but "visual communication." Art is something you do because you want to, design is something you do because your client needs the most effective visuals to move their product. That kind of talk bugs me because it's kind of douchy, but I think it's mainly to remind designers that they do things for well-considered reasons, not because it "looks cool." Art is supposed to be free from rules, and indeed, if you don't care about selling it, you can and should do whatever you like. But there are generally accepted notions on color, scale, position, etc that improve paintings, collage, etc. So it's like "duh. shut up, designer, it's true of anything that's visual." So an album cover, being a little of both, will be subject to a bit of dogma, but it's all situational, and CERTAINLY it's all subjective.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:52pmSure sure, art and dogma shouldn't mingle. But that is quite enlightening to me because my instinct would be to think that consistent font type trumps all else. Then again, it's enlightening because that kind of work is so beyond my ken. I can bullshit interpret as well as the next phony, but designing something is just utterly foreign.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:34pmIt depends entirely on the application. These are all just tools in one's box for making design work, but I would say generally so. Design has a rich tradition of mixing fonts, and it's one of the hardest things to get right. But if the two lines were the same font, but still different colors, I would personally say that would be less effective that what they have now. But it all depends on context and intent. Different solutions in different environments, for sure.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:58pmSo common colour is a more important unifier than common typography?Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:45pmI can't think of another album which does it like this, but I don't know if I'd call it a faux pas. I might not have chosen that font, but they might have been trying to make a statement, meaning the the two separate elements are intentional ("germfree" is clean and orderly, "adolescents," both in life and typographically, is not). I'd also have chosen to have the two words in the same color to pull it together more, but I think the play for garishness may have been intentional too (although I think the original used different colors from this anyway).Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:29pm
Is it generally a faux pas to use two different designs/fonts within the album title like that? Other than their close proximity, isn't it a signal that they are two separate elements?
If you ever have time, Google around for "font combinations." There's a lot of study and thought on the subject, and as I say, it still stymies me sometimes. It's hard to get the combos just right, which is why you may have an aversion to that kind of thing.
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Re: Covering Album Covers
This is exactly how I feel about art. You have put it perfectly mate. Sometimes being deliberately wrong can be right. But always pleasing to the individuals eye.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:25pmA lot of designers will vehemently and persistently tell you that what they do isn't art, but "visual communication." Art is something you do because you want to, design is something you do because your client needs the most effective visuals to move their product. That kind of talk bugs me because it's kind of douchy, but I think it's mainly to remind designers that they do things for well-considered reasons, not because it "looks cool." Art is supposed to be free from rules, and indeed, if you don't care about selling it, you can and should do whatever you like. But there are generally accepted notions on color, scale, position, etc that improve paintings, collage, etc. So it's like "duh. shut up, designer, it's true of anything that's visual." So an album cover, being a little of both, will be subject to a bit of dogma, but it's all situational, and CERTAINLY it's all subjective.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:52pmSure sure, art and dogma shouldn't mingle. But that is quite enlightening to me because my instinct would be to think that consistent font type trumps all else. Then again, it's enlightening because that kind of work is so beyond my ken. I can bullshit interpret as well as the next phony, but designing something is just utterly foreign.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:34pmIt depends entirely on the application. These are all just tools in one's box for making design work, but I would say generally so. Design has a rich tradition of mixing fonts, and it's one of the hardest things to get right. But if the two lines were the same font, but still different colors, I would personally say that would be less effective that what they have now. But it all depends on context and intent. Different solutions in different environments, for sure.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:58pmSo common colour is a more important unifier than common typography?Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:45pm
I can't think of another album which does it like this, but I don't know if I'd call it a faux pas. I might not have chosen that font, but they might have been trying to make a statement, meaning the the two separate elements are intentional ("germfree" is clean and orderly, "adolescents," both in life and typographically, is not). I'd also have chosen to have the two words in the same color to pull it together more, but I think the play for garishness may have been intentional too (although I think the original used different colors from this anyway).
If you ever have time, Google around for "font combinations." There's a lot of study and thought on the subject, and as I say, it still stymies me sometimes. It's hard to get the combos just right, which is why you may have an aversion to that kind of thing.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: Covering Album Covers
But still, there are things that are definitely considered bad design. Having a go is one thing (and to be encouraged), but coming up with a result that is effective and striking is another matter entirely, and often takes years of experience. I had friends ask me before I went into school "can't you just teach yourself?" And yeah, I could teach myself the programs, but the fundamentals really are super-important if you want to make the best decisions for maximum effect. Visual stuff is definitely subjective, but to paraphrase Orwell, some things are more subjective than others.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:23pmI simply can not agree with this attitude. For me it's about having a go. I see this as the whole ethos of the D.I.Y. ethic that punk brought about. Some of those record covers that were done on next to no budget are great. All it takes is an idea a little inspiration from something you maybe see everyday like a soap packet for example. Or maybe something that looks how your music sounds.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:14pmThis is taking the thread off-course, but, sure, I could fake it. People do that all the time. But I know it would be faked because I lack that knack, that eye. That talent just isn't in me anymore than I could write and perform a symphony. I'm creative in some ways, but visual art? Nope. That's not defeatist. It's respecting the people who do have the talent and not asserting membership in a club that I don't merit.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 3:42pmSure but to say you can't do it is so defeatest. Especially as you are the guy who likes all those indie albums with odd covers. I mean anyone could pick up a camera point it at something you like a go click. A tree or a branch taken up close or pattern on a rock and there's your cover art. There are no rules to what looks good. That even counts regarding the font. Once an artist picks a font they then become associated with it. The Smiths are a prime example of this.
I sort of liken design to wine tasting, frankly. It's largely crap, but parts of it are real.
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Re: Covering Album Covers
This is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
Re: Covering Album Covers
Exactly. If your doing it "wrong" is for the greater concept of the piece, then it's an effective choice.Marky Dread wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:29pmThis is exactly how I feel about art. You have put it perfectly mate. Sometimes being deliberately wrong can be right. But always pleasing to the individuals eye.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:25pmA lot of designers will vehemently and persistently tell you that what they do isn't art, but "visual communication." Art is something you do because you want to, design is something you do because your client needs the most effective visuals to move their product. That kind of talk bugs me because it's kind of douchy, but I think it's mainly to remind designers that they do things for well-considered reasons, not because it "looks cool." Art is supposed to be free from rules, and indeed, if you don't care about selling it, you can and should do whatever you like. But there are generally accepted notions on color, scale, position, etc that improve paintings, collage, etc. So it's like "duh. shut up, designer, it's true of anything that's visual." So an album cover, being a little of both, will be subject to a bit of dogma, but it's all situational, and CERTAINLY it's all subjective.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:52pmSure sure, art and dogma shouldn't mingle. But that is quite enlightening to me because my instinct would be to think that consistent font type trumps all else. Then again, it's enlightening because that kind of work is so beyond my ken. I can bullshit interpret as well as the next phony, but designing something is just utterly foreign.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 2:34pmIt depends entirely on the application. These are all just tools in one's box for making design work, but I would say generally so. Design has a rich tradition of mixing fonts, and it's one of the hardest things to get right. But if the two lines were the same font, but still different colors, I would personally say that would be less effective that what they have now. But it all depends on context and intent. Different solutions in different environments, for sure.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 1:58pm
So common colour is a more important unifier than common typography?
If you ever have time, Google around for "font combinations." There's a lot of study and thought on the subject, and as I say, it still stymies me sometimes. It's hard to get the combos just right, which is why you may have an aversion to that kind of thing.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc
Re: Covering Album Covers
Heartily endorsed.Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:36pmThis is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
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Re: Covering Album Covers
Damn Medulla was right he can't do it.Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:36pmThis is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Covering Album Covers
In other words, art cannot be contaminated by commercialism and they are, in essence, degrading their own work. Whatever neuroses get you thru the night …
And even "breaking the rules" is, at heart, a search for different rules because, in then end, you ask yourself whether it "works." And assessing whether it works necessarily means calling upon some kind of schema or developing a new one. Art is a form of communication and successful communication does depend on the participants sharing common interpretative guides.That kind of talk bugs me because it's kind of douchy, but I think it's mainly to remind designers that they do things for well-considered reasons, not because it "looks cool." Art is supposed to be free from rules, and indeed, if you don't care about selling it, you can and should do whatever you like. But there are generally accepted notions on color, scale, position, etc that improve paintings, collage, etc. So it's like "duh. shut up, designer, it's true of anything that's visual."
Cool—something to feed my inadequacies.If you ever have time, Google around for "font combinations." There's a lot of study and thought on the subject, and as I say, it still stymies me sometimes. It's hard to get the combos just right, which is why you may have an aversion to that kind of thing.
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
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Re: Covering Album Covers
Some of us liked Mick's original mix better.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:37pmHeartily endorsed.Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:36pmThis is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
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Re: Covering Album Covers
Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:51pmSome of us liked Mick's original mix better.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:37pmHeartily endorsed.Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:36pmThis is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Covering Album Covers
That is definitely the sleeve for the version that includes "First Night Back in London."Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:51pmSome of us liked Mick's original mix better.Kory wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:37pmHeartily endorsed.Rat Patrol wrote: ↑31 Oct 2017, 4:36pmThis is the correct answer: https://www.flickr.com/photos/27193825@ ... 083976781/
"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back in Whittier, they're not much bigger than two meters.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft