The Trump observations thread

Politics and other such topical creams.
JennyB
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB » 24 Aug 2017, 4:23pm

Flex wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:14pm
I don't get what the wheelchair ramp thing has to do with confederate statues.

I've seen your cousin's comments on your page before, he's an idiot.
Because I guess stairs were the enemy of the disabled? But the cripples are OK because they don't want stairs taken down. :shifty:

He is such an idiot.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Flex » 24 Aug 2017, 4:25pm

JennyB wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:23pm
Because I guess stairs were the enemy of the disabled? But the cripples are OK because they don't want stairs taken down. :shifty:
Stairs are heritage not hate imho
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Aug 2017, 4:25pm

Huh. All along I thought Nazis were the perpetrators of the Holocaust but it was those dirty Communists who opposed them (unlike conservatives and liberals in Germany who saw the Nazis as useful indirect allies against Bolshevism). But I guess it was the Commies.

I honestly can't get my mind around the fact that there are right-wing Jews who give Nazis a pass or think it's no big deal. Forgive the generalization, but I thought Jews were pretty much in agreement that Nazis are always the worst kind of excrement in human form and not letting them get even a toehold is a historical urgency.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB » 24 Aug 2017, 4:34pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:25pm
Huh. All along I thought Nazis were the perpetrators of the Holocaust but it was those dirty Communists who opposed them (unlike conservatives and liberals in Germany who saw the Nazis as useful indirect allies against Bolshevism). But I guess it was the Commies.

I honestly can't get my mind around the fact that there are right-wing Jews who give Nazis a pass or think it's no big deal. Forgive the generalization, but I thought Jews were pretty much in agreement that Nazis are always the worst kind of excrement in human form and not letting them get even a toehold is a historical urgency.
I don't know if that is necessarily what he was implying. I think he was trying to say that "regular" Germans were scared of the violence from both sides, and the Nazis offered the best means of calming things down and keeping them safe. Which may very well be, but it was only a tiny contributing factor. He neglects to blame anything about the economy, rampant anti-Semitism, etc., but I don't think he was intending to actually defend the Nazis. It's still a really simplistic and dumb take.

ETA: he also comes the side of my family that was all safely in the US wayyyy before WW2, so he comes from an entirely different frame of reference. He also mansplained the Holocaust to me, which was super annoying.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Aug 2017, 4:51pm

JennyB wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:34pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:25pm
Huh. All along I thought Nazis were the perpetrators of the Holocaust but it was those dirty Communists who opposed them (unlike conservatives and liberals in Germany who saw the Nazis as useful indirect allies against Bolshevism). But I guess it was the Commies.

I honestly can't get my mind around the fact that there are right-wing Jews who give Nazis a pass or think it's no big deal. Forgive the generalization, but I thought Jews were pretty much in agreement that Nazis are always the worst kind of excrement in human form and not letting them get even a toehold is a historical urgency.
I don't know if that is necessarily what he was implying. I think he was trying to say that "regular" Germans were scared of the violence from both sides, and the Nazis offered the best means of calming things down and keeping them safe. Which may very well be, but it was only a tiny contributing factor. He neglects to blame anything about the economy, rampant anti-Semitism, etc., but I don't think he was intending to actually defend the Nazis. It's still a really simplistic and dumb take.
It just seems weird to blame the Communists, who were clear and unwavering in their opposition to the Nazis from the start, rather than the "regular Germans" who underestimated the Nazi threat and even saw them as useful in their opposition to Bolshevism. I mean, the implication is that if not for the Communists, the Nazis wouldn't have gained any traction and … faded away? It's dumber than dumb to blame the people who stood up to what we now know was a genocidal menace, when it was the conservatives and liberals who were too passive.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB » 24 Aug 2017, 4:57pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:51pm
JennyB wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:34pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:25pm
Huh. All along I thought Nazis were the perpetrators of the Holocaust but it was those dirty Communists who opposed them (unlike conservatives and liberals in Germany who saw the Nazis as useful indirect allies against Bolshevism). But I guess it was the Commies.

I honestly can't get my mind around the fact that there are right-wing Jews who give Nazis a pass or think it's no big deal. Forgive the generalization, but I thought Jews were pretty much in agreement that Nazis are always the worst kind of excrement in human form and not letting them get even a toehold is a historical urgency.
I don't know if that is necessarily what he was implying. I think he was trying to say that "regular" Germans were scared of the violence from both sides, and the Nazis offered the best means of calming things down and keeping them safe. Which may very well be, but it was only a tiny contributing factor. He neglects to blame anything about the economy, rampant anti-Semitism, etc., but I don't think he was intending to actually defend the Nazis. It's still a really simplistic and dumb take.
It just seems weird to blame the Communists, who were clear and unwavering in their opposition to the Nazis from the start, rather than the "regular Germans" who underestimated the Nazi threat and even saw them as useful in their opposition to Bolshevism. I mean, the implication is that if not for the Communists, the Nazis wouldn't have gained any traction and … faded away? It's dumber than dumb to blame the people who stood up to what we now know was a genocidal menace, when it was the conservatives and liberals who were too passive.
Good point. But then again, he thought it was terrible when I said I saw nothing wrong with punching Nazis. He thought that was a violation of the first amendment, because anyone, no matter their views, should be able to march "unmolested." :lol:
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Aug 2017, 5:09pm

JennyB wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:57pm
Good point. But then again, he thought it was terrible when I said I saw nothing wrong with punching Nazis. He thought that was a violation of the first amendment, because anyone, no matter their views, should be able to march "unmolested." :lol:
Well, leaving aside my pacifism, this idea that all views need to be respected is so goddamned dumb and, quite ironically, contrary to democratic thought. One of the key, defining qualities of liberal democracy is the idea of reciprocity. All parties are committed to the idea of democracy and settlement of political questions are done without vengeance, that the victors still respect the rights of losers to continue to participate and perhaps succeed later on or on different questions. It's about an open and mutually supportive process. If you don't sign on to that, you have no claim to that respect and protection in return. Nazis do not believe in liberal democracy—their desire is to replace it with a racialized totalitarian (or perhaps just authoritarian) state—so those committed to democracy work against it by granting those opponents any kind of legitimacy. It's overstating it, but if you're arguing for the importance of allowing Nazis to participate in the democratic process, you're betraying democracy. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but seeing so many dopes online smugly asserting that we have to respect Nazis' right to speech and all that just shows how poorly they understand the principles of democracy and/or what Nazis want.

edit: To be clear, I'm not talking about removing legal rights and protections based on ideology; this is about citizens defending and thereby empowering Nazis.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by JennyB » 25 Aug 2017, 9:11am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 5:09pm
JennyB wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 4:57pm
Good point. But then again, he thought it was terrible when I said I saw nothing wrong with punching Nazis. He thought that was a violation of the first amendment, because anyone, no matter their views, should be able to march "unmolested." :lol:
Well, leaving aside my pacifism, this idea that all views need to be respected is so goddamned dumb and, quite ironically, contrary to democratic thought. One of the key, defining qualities of liberal democracy is the idea of reciprocity. All parties are committed to the idea of democracy and settlement of political questions are done without vengeance, that the victors still respect the rights of losers to continue to participate and perhaps succeed later on or on different questions. It's about an open and mutually supportive process. If you don't sign on to that, you have no claim to that respect and protection in return. Nazis do not believe in liberal democracy—their desire is to replace it with a racialized totalitarian (or perhaps just authoritarian) state—so those committed to democracy work against it by granting those opponents any kind of legitimacy. It's overstating it, but if you're arguing for the importance of allowing Nazis to participate in the democratic process, you're betraying democracy. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but seeing so many dopes online smugly asserting that we have to respect Nazis' right to speech and all that just shows how poorly they understand the principles of democracy and/or what Nazis want.

edit: To be clear, I'm not talking about removing legal rights and protections based on ideology; this is about citizens defending and thereby empowering Nazis.
Exactly.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 25 Aug 2017, 2:01pm

Assuming we survive this ordeal, the books from former staffers are going to contain jaw-dropping anecdotes. Yet, we'll have no safe standard for figuring out bullshit from truth. If Priebus wrote that Trump had his bathroom stocked with toilet paper that had Obama's face on every sheet, who would feel confident in ruling that out?
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Wolter » 25 Aug 2017, 3:22pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 2:01pm
Assuming we survive this ordeal, the books from former staffers are going to contain jaw-dropping anecdotes. Yet, we'll have no safe standard for figuring out bullshit from truth. If Priebus wrote that Trump had his bathroom stocked with toilet paper that had Obama's face on every sheet, who would feel confident in ruling that out?
Hell, now that you've written that, I don't feel confident ruling it out.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Kory » 25 Aug 2017, 4:57pm

My head would have exploded in that conversation, and I come from a family of people who take personal offense when I say that politicians over a certain age should not be in office, and who simply reply with "you're full of crap" when they've exhausted their already limited debating skills.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 25 Aug 2017, 5:14pm

Kory wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 4:57pm
My head would have exploded in that conversation, and I come from a family of people who take personal offense when I say that politicians over a certain age should not be in office, and who simply reply with "you're full of crap" when they've exhausted their already limited debating skills.
My family, for the most part, is the same way except the other side of the spectrum. Pretty much any bizarre rumour you could imagine about a conservative politician, they'd buy it.
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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Inder » 25 Aug 2017, 9:13pm

Texas apocalypse
Trans military ban
Gorka out
Arpaio pardoned

What a busy few hours.

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by Kory » 28 Aug 2017, 5:22pm

Inder wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 9:13pm
Texas apocalypse
Trans military ban
Gorka out
Arpaio pardoned

What a busy few hours.
And now cops get tanks.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

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Re: The Trump observations thread

Post by revbob » 28 Aug 2017, 6:53pm

On my way to work this morning I saw a truck in front of me. It had a big merican flag and two bumper stickers, one a Trump/Pence. The other read:
"Im Working to be a One Percenter!
The Americxan Dream
"

Not to be overly simplistic but I think that to so.e extwnt sums up the reason so many people vote against their own interests.

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