Pacifism has failed.

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 18 Aug 2017, 4:21pm

They'd have to be especially deluded to read the immediate aftermath and think they should be pressing some kind of advantage. They did gain the respect of notoriety from the mainstream, that they are important enough to condemn, but the number of assholes identified and exposed to their home communities, families, and employers is likely a massive shock to quite a number of them, given that to this point they've enjoyed Internet anonymity. The movement may have benefited, but I suspect it's a test of faith now for individuals.
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by eumaas » 18 Aug 2017, 4:30pm

I overheard a klan infiltrator calling in people but they didn't show
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by eumaas » 18 Aug 2017, 6:26pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 4:21pm
They'd have to be especially deluded to read the immediate aftermath and think they should be pressing some kind of advantage. They did gain the respect of notoriety from the mainstream, that they are important enough to condemn, but the number of assholes identified and exposed to their home communities, families, and employers is likely a massive shock to quite a number of them, given that to this point they've enjoyed Internet anonymity. The movement may have benefited, but I suspect it's a test of faith now for individuals.
Sorry, I'm home now, couldn't reply at the protest because my coverage is shit.

The most my group personally spotted were about three infiltrators total, but they kept their heads down and mostly filmed. We actually left them alone for the most part, just kept eyes on them. None of them seemed to be armed. Like I said, I personally overheard one trying to call in more people but it never materialized. I think they get scared off pretty easy unless it's a really large event like Charlottesville. This was more akin to the NC/VA klan "rally" a few months ago.

They are definitely trying to dox us. I tried to keep out of view but the female infiltrator definitely got me a couple times. I am not too worried about it, though.

The sheriffs were filming us with professional cameras and with iPhones but not interfering, which is just like they did with the statue topplers. So some of us may be getting arrested later. I didn't do anything illegal but who knows, they can always charge you with disorderly conduct for simply being there. I think public opinion is against those acts, though. My comrade in WWP told me the solidarity fund for legal costs has been receiving loads of donations.

The Klan are going to try to be bold, but honestly, we have such a rapid response here thanks to Defend Durham, WWP, and other groups that they can't seem to gain the advantage of surprise. When confronted with real opposition, most of the time they withdraw.

The crowd was mostly community people and a smattering of activisits (including Antifa and thankfully some medics). It was incredibly hot and humid but several groups organized water handouts so none of us got heat stroke. There were even elderly people there to show solidarity, and they seem to have been fine. I am physically exhausted from being out there for hours, but other than that, I am elated at being a part of driving the Klan back.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by eumaas » 18 Aug 2017, 6:33pm

Everybody present was very jumpy about motor noises. There were some false alarms with a lifted truck and a motorcycle. The level of anxiety in the crowd was pretty high but there was also a lot of good humor, chants, drumming, and jokes. Lots of us agreed a local brewery should sponsor the next one haha.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 18 Aug 2017, 6:37pm

That, and you, are awesome. It's heartening to see how many people come out and on such short notice. That kind of organization and commitment is inspirational. :cool:

It is going to be interesting to see how local cops react going forward. Trump may have made it, at least for the time being, politically toxic to go after anti-Klan protestors, or at least so obviously.
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by eumaas » 18 Aug 2017, 6:45pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 6:37pm
That, and you, are awesome. It's heartening to see how many people come out and on such short notice. That kind of organization and commitment is inspirational. :cool:

It is going to be interesting to see how local cops react going forward. Trump may have made it, at least for the time being, politically toxic to go after anti-Klan protestors, or at least so obviously.
Thanks. I was just glad I could participate! Also glad my comrades stayed security-conscious and safe.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 18 Aug 2017, 7:23pm

eumaas wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 6:45pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 6:37pm
That, and you, are awesome. It's heartening to see how many people come out and on such short notice. That kind of organization and commitment is inspirational. :cool:

It is going to be interesting to see how local cops react going forward. Trump may have made it, at least for the time being, politically toxic to go after anti-Klan protestors, or at least so obviously.
Thanks. I was just glad I could participate! Also glad my comrades stayed security-conscious and safe.
What's going on now is going to add real heft to your seminar on 1968 this fall. Absolutely impossible for the discussion not to have one foot in 2017.
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Kory » 18 Aug 2017, 8:32pm

eumaas wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 6:33pm
Everybody present was very jumpy about motor noises. There were some false alarms with a lifted truck and a motorcycle. The level of anxiety in the crowd was pretty high but there was also a lot of good humor, chants, drumming, and jokes. Lots of us agreed a local brewery should sponsor the next one haha.
I was there for the counterprotest in Seattle last Sunday, and the cops wouldn't let us through to the rally. They were dropping flashbangs, which aside from being pretty irresponsible after Charlottesville, did nothing more than to make us all believe they'd rather protect white supremacists than us. They eventually forced a dispersal, while the fucking supremists continued on! Cop scum.
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Silent Majority » 18 Aug 2017, 10:34pm

acab
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by JennyB » 21 Aug 2017, 9:40am

Thank you, Gene. You are doing good work.

This is a sincere question - does it matter if you are doxxed? Are there really people out there who would begrudge you for being at a rally opposing neo-Nazis? (Ugh, who am I kidding. Of course there would be).
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 24 Aug 2017, 6:34pm

Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by JennyB » 25 Aug 2017, 9:12am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 6:34pm
Bwah. Ha. Ha. And ha.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ayer-rally
‘I just had this image of alt-right people stomping around in the poop,’

It's brilliant in its simplicity.
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Kory » 25 Aug 2017, 5:00pm

The presence of Patriot Prayer, whose “free speech” events in the Pacific north-west have frequently sparked violent street battles
When was this?
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Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Flex » 29 Aug 2017, 6:37pm

Delete Your Account posted a debate on non-violence between George Ciccariello-Maher and Lee Fang, moderated by Joshua Holland. Interesting stuff, particularly given the discussion in this thread:

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Pacifism has failed.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 29 Aug 2017, 7:03pm

Thanks! I'll probably pause my current audiobook and listen to this during my bike ride tomorrow.
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