And I get that—I have waves of that overcome me from time to time, especially the last several months—but not giving in on that point is beyond crucial.Kory wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 4:24pmYeah I'll concede that I'm probably just getting discouraged.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 4:12pmThe key here is whether that shittiness is something inherent in human beings—something natural—or is it learned behaviour, the result of absorbing too uncritically ideologies that encourage that kind of nastiness. Leftists don't deny that ugliness in people; we just recognize it as something not intrinsic to human nature. It's about separating the sinner from the sin, to borrow inelegantly from religion. Which isn't to say that you can persuade all these people to let go of their bigotries, but to not inadvertently embrace the same kind of harsh, abstracting ideologies that denies a shared humanity.Kory wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 3:56pmI'm fine with everybody living with dignity and comfort. I don't have any objection to that. But after talking to people online, reading thousands of comments, and talking to people in real life including my entire family, I just don't have any faith that people care about anything other than paranoid self-preservation paired with their need to control things that don't affect them. I see it a lot more than the opposite.
The Reasons for Optimism Thread
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
& despite how bad things are, the left is more vital than any time in my lifeDr. Medulla wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 4:31pmAnd I get that—I have waves of that overcome me from time to time, especially the last several months—but not giving in on that point is beyond crucial.Kory wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 4:24pmYeah I'll concede that I'm probably just getting discouraged.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 4:12pmThe key here is whether that shittiness is something inherent in human beings—something natural—or is it learned behaviour, the result of absorbing too uncritically ideologies that encourage that kind of nastiness. Leftists don't deny that ugliness in people; we just recognize it as something not intrinsic to human nature. It's about separating the sinner from the sin, to borrow inelegantly from religion. Which isn't to say that you can persuade all these people to let go of their bigotries, but to not inadvertently embrace the same kind of harsh, abstracting ideologies that denies a shared humanity.Kory wrote: ↑30 Jan 2017, 3:56pmI'm fine with everybody living with dignity and comfort. I don't have any objection to that. But after talking to people online, reading thousands of comments, and talking to people in real life including my entire family, I just don't have any faith that people care about anything other than paranoid self-preservation paired with their need to control things that don't affect them. I see it a lot more than the opposite.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman
I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy
— Morton Feldman
I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
Christ, yeah. My reading of things is that neoliberalism is pretty much dead, or dead on its feet, and Western nations are either going to go fascist/ authoritarian (i.e., fascist lite) or social democracy. The odds in the US are still against social democracy given the considerable structures of power and possessors of great wealth and influence, but it's more viable than any time since LBJ pissed the initiative away in Southeast Asia. If Strauss and Howe are right, here's the secular crisis, and I take comfort and hope that the Millennials who are supposed to do the heavy lifting in a crisis are more geared to social democracy. Sanders and Trump gave the pendulum a good push and it might yet end up on the humanist side of things.
How's that for optimism?
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- BostonBeaneater
- Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
- Posts: 11953
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
- Location: Between the moon and New York City
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
This is really taking on a 1859, 1860 kinda tone. And, frankly, what is the rationale for the United States as currently constituted to exist? The original 13 colonies banded together for, fundamentally, defensive reasons and expanded as part of growing a domestic market. But if there is such a profound disagreement between so-called red and blue states, what is the point of them being connected politically?BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 4:15pmCalifornia is pitching in...
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... Cg.twitter
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- BostonBeaneater
- Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
- Posts: 11953
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
- Location: Between the moon and New York City
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
The Red States need us to fund them.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:00pmThis is really taking on a 1859, 1860 kinda tone. And, frankly, what is the rationale for the United States as currently constituted to exist? The original 13 colonies banded together for, fundamentally, defensive reasons and expanded as part of growing a domestic market. But if there is such a profound disagreement between so-called red and blue states, what is the point of them being connected politically?BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 4:15pmCalifornia is pitching in...
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... Cg.twitter
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
And yet, if everyone is being sincere in their principles (ho ho, no, wait, let me finish), the boo-Washington, states-rights crowds in those Red states should support ending that kind of wealth redistribution.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:50pmThe Red States need us to fund them.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:00pmThis is really taking on a 1859, 1860 kinda tone. And, frankly, what is the rationale for the United States as currently constituted to exist? The original 13 colonies banded together for, fundamentally, defensive reasons and expanded as part of growing a domestic market. But if there is such a profound disagreement between so-called red and blue states, what is the point of them being connected politically?BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 4:15pmCalifornia is pitching in...
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... Cg.twitter
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- BostonBeaneater
- Autonomous Insect Cyborg Sentinel
- Posts: 11953
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:24pm
- Location: Between the moon and New York City
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
It's OK unless the brown people get some.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:54pm
And yet, if everyone is being sincere in their principles (ho ho, no, wait, let me finish), the boo-Washington, states-rights crowds in those Red states should support ending that kind of wealth redistribution.
- Dr. Medulla
- Atheistic Epileptic
- Posts: 116730
- Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
- Location: Straight Banana, Idaho
Re: The Reasons for Optimism Thread
Fun fact: That idea plays well up here, too. When i was an undergrad, one of my profs was heading to my hometown to participate in a debate about proposed constitutional changes. He asked me what the people are like and I said, "Redneck socialists. Government programs are fine, but not for those lazy Injuns." He saw me a few days later and said, "You couldn't have been more right." The capacity for middle- and upper-class whites to not recognize the government handouts that keep them materially comfortable is astonishing.BostonBeaneater wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:57pmIt's OK unless the brown people get some.Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑02 Feb 2017, 6:54pm
And yet, if everyone is being sincere in their principles (ho ho, no, wait, let me finish), the boo-Washington, states-rights crowds in those Red states should support ending that kind of wealth redistribution.
"Ain't no party like an S Club party!'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft