Interesting Take on the Beatles

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Flex
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Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex »

I don't particularly agree with this article's opinions, although I see an element of truth:

http://www.scaruffi.com/vol1/beatles.html

Thought some folks here might find it, uh, interesting at least.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

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What a load of crap. That the writer relies on such dubious foundations as "real music" or "real musicians" reveals the inherent snobbery. Likewise the assertion that contemporary musicians didn't respect the Beatles as musicians. Okay, name them. Who were all these "real musicians" who thought the Beatles had no talent? Additionally, there's an implicit dismissal of the general public, that anything popular with large groups of people is immediately questionable.
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Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

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Dr. Medulla wrote:What a load of crap. That the writer relies on such dubious foundations as "real music" or "real musicians" reveals the inherent snobbery. Likewise the assertion that contemporary musicians didn't respect the Beatles as musicians. Okay, name them. Who were all these "real musicians" who thought the Beatles had no talent? Additionally, there's an implicit dismissal of the general public, that anything popular with large groups of people is immediately questionable.
Most of it is crap, I think the point that is more or less correct is that the Beatles weren't really forerunners in Rock n Roll innovation (from a structural standpoint). That they were a more conservative group musically than many like to admit rings true with me. Regardless, it's a weird thing to be critical of with the group, since those tendencies were what made it possible for most people to become aware of experimentation in rock n roll (cuz most people sure as shit weren't listening to early Pink Floyd and the like).
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Rat Patrol »

Real music is derivative of Pavement anyway.

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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by JoseUnidos »

Flex wrote:Regardless, it's a weird thing to be critical of with the group, since those tendencies were what made it possible for most people to become aware of experimentation in rock n roll (cuz most people sure as shit weren't listening to early Pink Floyd and the like).
Interesting footnote that Pink Floyd were recording The Piper at the Gates of Dawn in the studio adjacent to the Beatles, who were recording Sgt. Peppers at the same time.
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:What a load of crap. That the writer relies on such dubious foundations as "real music" or "real musicians" reveals the inherent snobbery. Likewise the assertion that contemporary musicians didn't respect the Beatles as musicians. Okay, name them. Who were all these "real musicians" who thought the Beatles had no talent? Additionally, there's an implicit dismissal of the general public, that anything popular with large groups of people is immediately questionable.
Most of it is crap, I think the point that is more or less correct is that the Beatles weren't really forerunners in Rock n Roll innovation (from a structural standpoint). That they were a more conservative group musically than many like to admit rings true with me. Regardless, it's a weird thing to be critical of with the group, since those tendencies were what made it possible for most people to become aware of experimentation in rock n roll (cuz most people sure as shit weren't listening to early Pink Floyd and the like).
I can't really speak to stuff like structural innovation because I'm not a musician. But the author is seriously misreading—or selectively reading—history to dismiss their musical impact, how they advanced notions of how rock songs were to be written and presented, to suggest that they were somehow neutering something that was pure. Horseshit. They took it in a different direction, that's all. Obviously the direction blew a lot of people away. Some picked up on what the Beatles were doing and took that in a different direction. And so on. The band may have had very conservative goals—sell a lot of albums, tour the world, etc etc—but they went about it by pushing forward a medium that was still not fully accepted by the general public. Listening to early Beatles albums, I don't hear a bastardized form of rock n roll, I hear rock n roll. That the writer wants to argue some perversion of eden and conning of the public doesn't make it true.
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by CorwoodRep »

I liked that article a great deal, but only because I just can't fuckin' stand the Beatles.
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

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DrugProwlingWolf wrote:I liked that article a great deal, but only because I just can't fuckin' stand the Beatles.
Why not?
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Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:I can't really speak to stuff like structural innovation because I'm not a musician. But the author is seriously misreading—or selectively reading—history to dismiss their musical impact, how they advanced notions of how rock songs were to be written and presented, to suggest that they were somehow neutering something that was pure. Horseshit. They took it in a different direction, that's all. Obviously the direction blew a lot of people away. Some picked up on what the Beatles were doing and took that in a different direction. And so on. The band may have had very conservative goals—sell a lot of albums, tour the world, etc etc—but they went about it by pushing forward a medium that was still not fully accepted by the general public. Listening to early Beatles albums, I don't hear a bastardized form of rock n roll, I hear rock n roll. That the writer wants to argue some perversion of eden and conning of the public doesn't make it true.
Well, I've gone as far as I'd like discussing an article neither of us believe. Mostly, I was hoping to illicit some sort of "without The Beatles there would be no beauty in rock" type response. That is an actual thing I have heard said.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Flex wrote: I was hoping to illicit some sort of "without The Beatles there would be no beauty in rock" type response.
I would deserve one of my feet washing ashore in B.C. if I ever said something like that.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

Flex
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Flex »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Flex wrote: I was hoping to illicit some sort of "without The Beatles there would be no beauty in rock" type response.
I would deserve one of my feet washing ashore in B.C. if I ever said something like that.
Well, not elicit from you obviously...

but from Inder. :shifty:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead

Pex Lives!

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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Howard Beale »

Their strength was perhaps being the epitome of mediocrity: never a flash of genius, never a revolutionary thought, never a step away from what was standard, accepting innovations only after they had been accepted by the establishment. And maybe it was that chronic mediocrity that made their fortune: whereas other bands tried to surpass their audiences, to keep two steps ahead of the myopia of their fans, traveling the hard and rocky road, the Beatles took their fans by the hand and walked them along a straight path devoid of curves and slopes.
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Wolter »

Howard Beale wrote:
Their strength was perhaps being the epitome of mediocrity: never a flash of genius, never a revolutionary thought, never a step away from what was standard, accepting innovations only after they had been accepted by the establishment. And maybe it was that chronic mediocrity that made their fortune: whereas other bands tried to surpass their audiences, to keep two steps ahead of the myopia of their fans, traveling the hard and rocky road, the Beatles took their fans by the hand and walked them along a straight path devoid of curves and slopes.
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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by Inder »

This article: :rolleyes:

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Re: Interesting Take on the Beatles

Post by tepista »

Howard Beale wrote:
..............................to keep two steps ahead of the myopia of their fans, traveling the hard and rocky road, the Beatles took their fans by the hand and walked them along a straight path devoid of curves and slopes.
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The road was long and winding, not hard and rocky. Rocky was the racoon.
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