I really liked the album when it came out—better than Earthquake Weather—but it's not like I've had much interest to play it more than once every decade.Heston wrote:They weren't very good, were they?
Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
- Dr. Medulla
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
- Marky Dread
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
Shitty synth drums.Dr. Medulla wrote:I really liked the album when it came out—better than Earthquake Weather—but it's not like I've had much interest to play it more than once every decade.Heston wrote:They weren't very good, were they?
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
I differ with that comment, and the other dismissive verdicts here -- I saw them live five times (four in London, once in Detroit), and they were way, way better on that front (with the two nights that they did at the Borderline, 1/23-24/90. ranking at the top of all those experiences).shitty synth drums.
The record is good, but doesn't quite capture the live experience that I remember ("film at ll," as they say). I might add that -- in the UK, at least -- they were using an electronic kit, and it made for a pretty good wallop. There was nothing limp or half-hearted about it, not in the CTC mode, anyway. I should know -- I've got it on tape, if you want the evidence!
- Marky Dread
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
I saw them live in London also and I agree that electronic kit was OK but no match for real drums. On record though it just doesn't have that same wallop you mentioned. The songs were good and they were good musicians I would just preferred real drums is all. I had the same problem with BAD when I first heard the album for some reason the synth drums have no depth of bass.Chairman Ralph wrote:I differ with that comment, and the other dismissive verdicts here -- I saw them live five times (four in London, once in Detroit), and they were way, way better on that front (with the two nights that they did at the Borderline, 1/23-24/90. ranking at the top of all those experiences).shitty synth drums.
The record is good, but doesn't quite capture the live experience that I remember ("film at ll," as they say). I might add that -- in the UK, at least -- they were using an electronic kit, and it made for a pretty good wallop. There was nothing limp or half-hearted about it, not in the CTC mode, anyway. I should know -- I've got it on tape, if you want the evidence!
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
I'd like to hear the evidence before making a judgement.Chairman Ralph wrote:I differ with that comment, and the other dismissive verdicts here -- I saw them live five times (four in London, once in Detroit), and they were way, way better on that front (with the two nights that they did at the Borderline, 1/23-24/90. ranking at the top of all those experiences).shitty synth drums.
The record is good, but doesn't quite capture the live experience that I remember ("film at ll," as they say). I might add that -- in the UK, at least -- they were using an electronic kit, and it made for a pretty good wallop. There was nothing limp or half-hearted about it, not in the CTC mode, anyway. I should know -- I've got it on tape, if you want the evidence!
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
Fair enough. As I said, the record doesn't match up to what I experienced live, but they weren't the last band to have that problem. That's the trickiest part of picking up the latest doo-dad, whether it's those synth drums, or, say, that squishy DX7 sound that you hear splattered all over records from the early to mid-'80s.I saw them live in London also and I agree that electronic kit was OK but no match for real drums. On record though it just doesn't have that same wallop you mentioned.I saw them live in London also and I agree that electronic kit was OK but no match for real drums. The songs were good and they were good musicians I would just preferred real drums is all. I had the same problem with BAD when I first heard the album for some reason the synth drums have no depth of bass.
What sounds cool or au courant at the time often winds up cloth-eared (and dated) later on.I, personally, prefer f@-cked-up drum machine sounds (Big Sitck's records, for example), but that's just me.
While we're discussing real vs. non-real drummers...ironically, Travis Williams, who kept the beat for much of the band's tenure, was always seen as a temporary guy, since their original choice (named Stephen Klong, appropriately enough) was committed elsewhere -- that's how Nigel explained it, anyway, when I interviewed him for a pre-gig story in the summer of '91.
In fact, Williams was seen as so temporary, that he copied the parts from the original demos (when they did the album) -- again, according to Nigel. However, Mr. Klong eventually returned to the fold, and so, real drums were back on the menu when Havana 3AM finally made it across the pond in the summer of '91. In my archives (somewhere, man, I swear!) is an unflattering live review by the Boston Globe -- I'll have to see if I can find it, because it's pretty interesting.
There's any number of recordings floating around out there, including the ones that I captured at the Borderline (11/21/89, plus the other two dates I already mentioned).I'd like to hear the evidence before making a judgement.
However...since you probably don't have the time...there's a handy short cut that I can give you. As those Time Life commercials say: "We've done the work for you." Check out this link here:
Note the electronic drumkit occupying a proudly prominent spot on the drum riser! No date or venue details are given, although I assume it's the same one with Gus Andrews, who played trumpet on the album; at one point, the complete video was circulating on Youtube, which doesn't seem to be the case now.
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NoMoreHugh
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
Yes i have seen Havana 3am live in London as well. They were supporting BAD at the time i think before their debut album was out. Guns of brixton really did rock the place, the whole place was a sea of bodies bouncing up and down and i was thinking wow this is going to be good. Then they started doing there own stuff ,and for me it went really dull the band really looked the part but were just really boring. Its a real shame as i really wanted to like them The band wasnt bad but just seemed to miss something specal.
The crowd did settle down and the performance just seemed to fizzle out
Maybe they were more ahead of time i dont really know or maybe there music needs a few listens as i have watched that video that was posted 3 times now and it is growing on me but not enough for me to go out and buy the album. Funny enough i did look to buy album when it was first released purely just because of paul and for some strange reason it was priced a few quid more than the other chart albums and i thought naaah not worth paying that.
The crowd did settle down and the performance just seemed to fizzle out
Maybe they were more ahead of time i dont really know or maybe there music needs a few listens as i have watched that video that was posted 3 times now and it is growing on me but not enough for me to go out and buy the album. Funny enough i did look to buy album when it was first released purely just because of paul and for some strange reason it was priced a few quid more than the other chart albums and i thought naaah not worth paying that.
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drowninghere
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
Man, you don't see a Big Stick reference every day...Chairman Ralph wrote:Fair enough. As I said, the record doesn't match up to what I experienced live, but they weren't the last band to have that problem. That's the trickiest part of picking up the latest doo-dad, whether it's those synth drums, or, say, that squishy DX7 sound that you hear splattered all over records from the early to mid-'80s.I saw them live in London also and I agree that electronic kit was OK but no match for real drums. On record though it just doesn't have that same wallop you mentioned.I saw them live in London also and I agree that electronic kit was OK but no match for real drums. The songs were good and they were good musicians I would just preferred real drums is all. I had the same problem with BAD when I first heard the album for some reason the synth drums have no depth of bass.
What sounds cool or au courant at the time often winds up cloth-eared (and dated) later on.I, personally, prefer f@-cked-up drum machine sounds (Big Sitck's records, for example), but that's just me.
While we're discussing real vs. non-real drummers...ironically, Travis Williams, who kept the beat for much of the band's tenure, was always seen as a temporary guy, since their original choice (named Stephen Klong, appropriately enough) was committed elsewhere -- that's how Nigel explained it, anyway, when I interviewed him for a pre-gig story in the summer of '91.
In fact, Williams was seen as so temporary, that he copied the parts from the original demos (when they did the album) -- again, according to Nigel. However, Mr. Klong eventually returned to the fold, and so, real drums were back on the menu when Havana 3AM finally made it across the pond in the summer of '91. In my archives (somewhere, man, I swear!) is an unflattering live review by the Boston Globe -- I'll have to see if I can find it, because it's pretty interesting.
There's any number of recordings floating around out there, including the ones that I captured at the Borderline (11/21/89, plus the other two dates I already mentioned).I'd like to hear the evidence before making a judgement.
However...since you probably don't have the time...there's a handy short cut that I can give you. As those Time Life commercials say: "We've done the work for you." Check out this link here:
Note the electronic drumkit occupying a proudly prominent spot on the drum riser! No date or venue details are given, although I assume it's the same one with Gus Andrews, who played trumpet on the album; at one point, the complete video was circulating on Youtube, which doesn't seem to be the case now.
I also saw Havana 3AM and all I can say (and remember) is it was a good time - they smartly saved GOB for the encore.
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
Wow, let me get this straight -- they opened with Guns Of Brixton? That was either brave, or foolish, depending on your reading...which brings me to:Yes i have seen Havana 3am live in London as well. They were supporting BAD at the time i think before their debut album was out. Guns of brixton really did rock the place, the whole place was a sea of bodies bouncing up and down and i was thinking wow this is going to be good. Then they started doing there own stuff ,and for me it went really dull the band really looked the part but were just really boring. Its a real shame as i really wanted to like them The band wasnt bad but just seemed to miss something specal.
The crowd did settle down and the performance just seemed to fizzle out
Well, that was definitely the policy for all the gigs that I caught, from '89 onwards. As I recall, they paired GOB with Something Else, which certainly seems like a better way to get across the finish line.Man, you don't see a Big Stick reference every day...
I also saw Havana 3AM and all I can say (and remember) is it was a good time - they smartly saved GOB for the encore.
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NoMoreHugh
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
That's how I remember it but if you say it was the encore then sure i believe you and my memory is playing tricks - it was such along time ago. The point being is was a forgettable performance. I do remember though yawning through there music and getting a adrenalin rush through gob. If it wasn't Paul up there I wouldn't have taken any notice at all. I always enjoyed the support acts and often ended up buying new music from supports I liked but not in this case they just didnt move me and to think because of Paul they had me won before they had played a notedrowninghere wrote:Wow, let me get this straight -- they opened with Guns Of Brixton? That was either brave, or foolish, depending on your reading...which brings me to:
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Chairman Ralph
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
I always wrote down the songs as I went along, so that's how I can be so positive -- I still have the original tapes, in their original cases! For any gig I taped, that was the rule, because I didn't want to guess at the setlist two or three days later!That's how I remember it but if you say it was the encore then sure i believe you and my memory is playing tricks - it was such along time ago. The point being is was a forgettable performance. I do remember though yawning through there music and getting a adrenalin rush through gob. If it wasn't Paul up there I wouldn't have taken any notice at all. I always enjoyed the support acts and often ended up buying new music from supports I liked but not in this case they just didnt move me and to think because of Paul they had me won before they had played a note
So that's why I asked -- if they opened with that song, I can see how the energy levels would have dissipated. I get your point; I've had similar reactions, pro or con, to supports that either wowed me, or left me cold.
However, your comments remind me of why I tried (unsuccessfully) to find that Boston Globe live review yesterday, which speaks to the lack of excitement that you felt. The reviewer notes that if, these guys are such dangerous men, couldn't they be more creative with their setlist -- and mentions that they did the whole album, from start to finish, in the same order as the recorded material.
I'll have to see if the Detroit gig was like that, but I'm thinking it was, because that one is probably a bit further down the tier for me. But that's show biz, I guess!
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Chuck Mangione
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Chuck Mangione
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Re: Havana 3am - "The Hardest Game" on Letterman
(Better quality, etc)Chuck Mangione wrote: