TRAC Demo's

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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Chuck Mangione » 13 Mar 2015, 12:47pm

Marky Dread wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:
dave202 wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:
dave202 wrote:Can someone repost these demos? I've lost mine.
Here you go.

https://www.mediafire.com/?bv2w8j5y5u58x3b
Thanks Chuck. I noticed Marky's first, but am still indebted for the effort.
No probs.

Hey, this is the remastered one bazar or Marky did, right? Could someone reup the original one if this wasn't it? I know I had it on my old drive. If this is the original then can I get the remasters?
This is my remastered version. The originals sounded pretty terrible do you still want them?

Here's the original tape anyway.

https://mega.co.nz/#!2xFkFKbQ!L7QMAknR- ... bggh0vmQb4
Thanks.

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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Silent Majority » 13 Mar 2015, 7:16pm

"These french fries are really delicious. Has anyone got a potato on them?"
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Chuck Mangione » 13 Mar 2015, 7:45pm

Silent Majority wrote:"These french fries are really delicious. Has anyone got a potato on them?"
Such is the logic of a Clash completist.

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Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Chuck Mangione » 17 Mar 2015, 8:20pm

Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.

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Re: Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Marky Dread » 17 Mar 2015, 8:24pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.
Make your own. You have the music, artwork what more do you need?. Plus if I find anyone selling the TRAC stuff on Ebay I'll personally break their fucking legs.
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Re: Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Chuck Mangione » 17 Mar 2015, 8:39pm

Marky Dread wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.
Make your own. You have the music, artwork what more do you need?. Plus if I find anyone selling the TRAC stuff on Ebay I'll personally break their fucking legs.
Hey, go easy on the bootleggers. We wouldn't have most of the great stuff in the Megalist if it wasn't for them. Maybe just put their feet to the fire for a while?

I'd personally be mad only if they sold it at a really high price and were clearly only doing it for the money with bad quality and artwork. If it was really good quality and design, plus a price only fair for shipping and whatnot, then I'd give them a pass. I suppose.

Don't get me wrong. I hate people who sell the Clash for money, like that guy who wants like a million for his live video. In this case, though, you're right. It's really unnecessary to create and sell the TRAC stuff especially when someone could just make some online. I always prefer newly found soundboards to show up on DIME first rather than pressed on vinyl or cassette.

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Re: Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Marky Dread » 17 Mar 2015, 8:53pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.
Make your own. You have the music, artwork what more do you need?. Plus if I find anyone selling the TRAC stuff on Ebay I'll personally break their fucking legs.
Hey, go easy on the bootleggers. We wouldn't have most of the great stuff in the Megalist if it wasn't for them. Maybe just put their feet to the fire for a while?

I'd personally be mad only if they sold it at a really high price and were clearly only doing it for the money with bad quality and artwork. If it was really good quality and design, plus a price only fair for shipping and whatnot, then I'd give them a pass. I suppose.

Don't get me wrong. I hate people who sell the Clash for money, like that guy who wants like a million for his live video. In this case, though, you're right. It's really unnecessary to create and sell the TRAC stuff especially when someone could just make some online. I always prefer newly found soundboards to show up on DIME first rather than pressed on vinyl or cassette.
The thing is that we (us) got the TRAC demos here for free but without Mick's blessing. I cleaned them up and made artwork to share with the community and Mick has been cool about it. So why should some greedy bootlegger make money out of it? As for not having half of the stuff on the megalist thanks to bootleggers well that's the whole point of the megalist so the next generation of Clash fans DO NOT get ripped off like the previous.
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Re: Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Rat Patrol » 17 Mar 2015, 9:54pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.
Make your own. You have the music, artwork what more do you need?. Plus if I find anyone selling the TRAC stuff on Ebay I'll personally break their fucking legs.
Hey, go easy on the bootleggers. We wouldn't have most of the great stuff in the Megalist if it wasn't for them. Maybe just put their feet to the fire for a while?

I'd personally be mad only if they sold it at a really high price and were clearly only doing it for the money with bad quality and artwork. If it was really good quality and design, plus a price only fair for shipping and whatnot, then I'd give them a pass. I suppose.

Don't get me wrong. I hate people who sell the Clash for money, like that guy who wants like a million for his live video. In this case, though, you're right. It's really unnecessary to create and sell the TRAC stuff especially when someone could just make some online. I always prefer newly found soundboards to show up on DIME first rather than pressed on vinyl or cassette.
You've never had to physically go to a record store or blindly fork over money online to find a favorite band's bootleg in non- 128K garbage MP3 sound quality like most of the pre-2005 world has, have you?

Let me tell you...it's depressing as hell to have spent $25 in mark-up for a show you've never heard but have always wanted to because:
-- Some asshole who has never listened to the band in his life but knows people who have stuff just ripped a 128K MP3 off an umpteenth-generation tape dub...poorly.
-- Burned it to the cheapest CD-R's Walmart sells...poorly.
-- Photocopied...poorly...the same band photo you've seen 8 million times before.
-- Botched the tracklisting with made-up names based on the lyrics not song title. Maybe even burned the MP3's in the wrong order.
-- Misspelled the bandmembers' names on the label
...and sold it to 10 record stores. Who sell it as the 2nd-most-expensive product category behind box sets. Yes...even the cassette boots.

Remember...you checked out this boot and its artwork on a tape-trading site like BMC that catalogues all the various pressings of said boots and ranks the high-quality ones. You thought you knew what you were purchasing. You did not have any means--because the fucking thing was in a display case or on eBay--of testing it out beforehand and finding out that was just another shite MP3 burn on shite CD-R masquerading as a real pressing. But it was the only way you could listen to that live show you've heard good things about. So you gambled your money and put up with the shite burn full of clicks and squiggles and MP3 artifacts. Sometimes you win, soemetimes you lose. But it's probably 60/40 win/lose so it's a pretty costly habit if you're skint that you can only indulge every once in awhile. And that wait is forever when you realize you just bought a bad rip (and can't get your money back...because the record stores NEVER gave money-back guarantees for the DIY boots) and have to save up another month before your next buying trip.


And, oh BTW...once online MP3 trading became ubiquitous these shite burns polluted the internet like zombies and kept turning up again and again as "new" sources, and the tape-traders had to play whack-a-mole cleaning up all that pollution and bad leads. To the point where it took 5 years into the FLAC and Megalisteses era for the zombie bad rips to stop showing up, and to even get a somewhat comprehensive collection of masters together to the point where the zombie rips stopped being a nuisance. And also...the early MP3-trading networks like Napster and LimeWire: they weren't like MegaUpload/Mega/etc. where you downloaded a remote-hosted ZIP iof the whole show in one sitting or a torrent where re-seeding was robustly distributed so the tracker stayed live for months. Tracks were only available when the person with the tracks was online, and you downloaded them individually. Meaning...if you only got 12 random tracks on a 23-track setlist (usually d/l'd out-of-order) and the user dissapeared...you were S.O.L. And would have to hunt-and-peck for 11 more individual tracks. From different rips, so the duct-taped full show had wildly varying sound quality and EQ. Sometimes it took days/weeks/months of searching to assemble the full tracklisting. And then somebody's duct-taped amalgamation end ups getting re-seeded so the quality decays worse the further it spreads. Occasionally with these Frankenstein-seeded jobs themselves getting burned by some asshole to CD-R as a pay-for boot...which then boomerangs back to the Internet for another generation of shitty rippage.

And so on and so on.



I say this as a Generation Napster person who's had some degree of easy MP3 access my whole adult life. I didn't have to chase dead leads and buy my boots from shady street vendors like the old farts did. But I still had to shell out money for CD boots because the internet tracks weren't good enough quality, and had a hell of a time getting clean stuff online until the very recentest Dime era.



Chuck..."go easy on the bootleggers" is an ignorant viewpoint. They're not tape-traders. They're not even the ones who put together a lovingly-prepared silver-CD pressing or vinyl boot pressing with interesting artwork. They are not even music fans...they are freeloaders and grifters. And they made life difficult for generations of music fans because they didn't give a rat's-ass about quality control and intentionally polluted the supply with shit rips, shit dubs, shit burns that they knew full-well shit. And didn't care. They can die in a colonoscopy-gone-awry like the "ONE MEEEELION DOLLAR" ransomers for all I care.
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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Chuck Mangione » 17 Mar 2015, 10:02pm

Forget I asked.

P.s., By "go easy on the bootleggers" I think I meant thank the guys who actually sneaked some type of audio recorder in the room and put it online.

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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Rat Patrol » 17 Mar 2015, 10:26pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:Forget I asked.

P.s., By "go easy on the bootleggers" I think I meant thank the guys who actually sneaked some type of audio recorder in the room and put it online.
"Tape-traders." They are tape traders. "Bootlegger" is a derogatory term. Always has been. It's taking without giving. Big, big difference. Real traders get insulted by being called that...and real traders want to stab bootleggers with an ice pick worse than anyone.


"Boots"...the lovingly-prepared original pressings with nice artwork. That's not bootlegging per se, it's money for services rendered. Or a sliding scale of such, since it can run the gamut from premium-quality gems to shady. But few of label-lets that were well-known for publishing that stuff made little more than the cost of their own ham sandwich back in revenue because pressing vinyl or silver CD's and packaging costs them money that isn't returned in volume by the extremely small quantities of product only a few hundred to thousand supersuperfans would ever buy (if they knew where to look). And some of those DIY efforts willingly took a loss for the sake of getting it out there. But at least those pressings--dodgy ones included--have well-traceable lineage to authenticate (sometimes even label catalogue numbers), which is why they're so well-documented on BMC. Pre-internet you could get that same info on-paper to inform your shopping list, if you had the right connections.

The grifters? They grift from a position of anonymity. Anyone can dub a cassette. Anyone can burn a CD-R. Anyone can photocopy artwork. And anyone can pass off shit as sought-after product if it's concealed in the appearance of sought-after product. Being untraceable is the bootlegger's whole business plan. A tape trader has a name, an e-mail, an identity. A self-identifying signature if they go press some some silver CD's or make some artwork, so other tape-traders can authenticate it as real and of known lineage. The trader's identity is how they know who to stab with an ice pick when the bootleggers inevitably rip off their creation in totally inferior and supply-polluting fashion.


"The Marky Dread Mix™" ain't just for vanity. It's a tracer.
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Re: Any T.R.A.C. bootlegs for sale?

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Mar 2015, 1:02am

Rat Patrol wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:
Marky Dread wrote:
Chuck Mangione wrote:Has anyone found any fan-made physical bootlegs of the TRAC stuff yet? like on eBay? It would be nice to have a disc of it.
Make your own. You have the music, artwork what more do you need?. Plus if I find anyone selling the TRAC stuff on Ebay I'll personally break their fucking legs.
Hey, go easy on the bootleggers. We wouldn't have most of the great stuff in the Megalist if it wasn't for them. Maybe just put their feet to the fire for a while?

I'd personally be mad only if they sold it at a really high price and were clearly only doing it for the money with bad quality and artwork. If it was really good quality and design, plus a price only fair for shipping and whatnot, then I'd give them a pass. I suppose.

Don't get me wrong. I hate people who sell the Clash for money, like that guy who wants like a million for his live video. In this case, though, you're right. It's really unnecessary to create and sell the TRAC stuff especially when someone could just make some online. I always prefer newly found soundboards to show up on DIME first rather than pressed on vinyl or cassette.
You've never had to physically go to a record store or blindly fork over money online to find a favorite band's bootleg in non- 128K garbage MP3 sound quality like most of the pre-2005 world has, have you?

Let me tell you...it's depressing as hell to have spent $25 in mark-up for a show you've never heard but have always wanted to because:
-- Some asshole who has never listened to the band in his life but knows people who have stuff just ripped a 128K MP3 off an umpteenth-generation tape dub...poorly.
-- Burned it to the cheapest CD-R's Walmart sells...poorly.
-- Photocopied...poorly...the same band photo you've seen 8 million times before.
-- Botched the tracklisting with made-up names based on the lyrics not song title. Maybe even burned the MP3's in the wrong order.
-- Misspelled the bandmembers' names on the label
...and sold it to 10 record stores. Who sell it as the 2nd-most-expensive product category behind box sets. Yes...even the cassette boots.

Remember...you checked out this boot and its artwork on a tape-trading site like BMC that catalogues all the various pressings of said boots and ranks the high-quality ones. You thought you knew what you were purchasing. You did not have any means--because the fucking thing was in a display case or on eBay--of testing it out beforehand and finding out that was just another shite MP3 burn on shite CD-R masquerading as a real pressing. But it was the only way you could listen to that live show you've heard good things about. So you gambled your money and put up with the shite burn full of clicks and squiggles and MP3 artifacts. Sometimes you win, soemetimes you lose. But it's probably 60/40 win/lose so it's a pretty costly habit if you're skint that you can only indulge every once in awhile. And that wait is forever when you realize you just bought a bad rip (and can't get your money back...because the record stores NEVER gave money-back guarantees for the DIY boots) and have to save up another month before your next buying trip.


And, oh BTW...once online MP3 trading became ubiquitous these shite burns polluted the internet like zombies and kept turning up again and again as "new" sources, and the tape-traders had to play whack-a-mole cleaning up all that pollution and bad leads. To the point where it took 5 years into the FLAC and Megalisteses era for the zombie bad rips to stop showing up, and to even get a somewhat comprehensive collection of masters together to the point where the zombie rips stopped being a nuisance. And also...the early MP3-trading networks like Napster and LimeWire: they weren't like MegaUpload/Mega/etc. where you downloaded a remote-hosted ZIP iof the whole show in one sitting or a torrent where re-seeding was robustly distributed so the tracker stayed live for months. Tracks were only available when the person with the tracks was online, and you downloaded them individually. Meaning...if you only got 12 random tracks on a 23-track setlist (usually d/l'd out-of-order) and the user dissapeared...you were S.O.L. And would have to hunt-and-peck for 11 more individual tracks. From different rips, so the duct-taped full show had wildly varying sound quality and EQ. Sometimes it took days/weeks/months of searching to assemble the full tracklisting. And then somebody's duct-taped amalgamation end ups getting re-seeded so the quality decays worse the further it spreads. Occasionally with these Frankenstein-seeded jobs themselves getting burned by some asshole to CD-R as a pay-for boot...which then boomerangs back to the Internet for another generation of shitty rippage.

And so on and so on.



I say this as a Generation Napster person who's had some degree of easy MP3 access my whole adult life. I didn't have to chase dead leads and buy my boots from shady street vendors like the old farts did. But I still had to shell out money for CD boots because the internet tracks weren't good enough quality, and had a hell of a time getting clean stuff online until the very recentest Dime era.



Chuck..."go easy on the bootleggers" is an ignorant viewpoint. They're not tape-traders. They're not even the ones who put together a lovingly-prepared silver-CD pressing or vinyl boot pressing with interesting artwork. They are not even music fans...they are freeloaders and grifters. And they made life difficult for generations of music fans because they didn't give a rat's-ass about quality control and intentionally polluted the supply with shit rips, shit dubs, shit burns that they knew full-well shit. And didn't care. They can die in a colonoscopy-gone-awry like the "ONE MEEEELION DOLLAR" ransomers for all I care.
Ratty, this post is fantastic it really says it all on the subject. It should be the "New Testament" on the subject of Trader Vs. Bootlegger.
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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Mar 2015, 1:12am

Chuck Mangione wrote:Forget I asked.

P.s., By "go easy on the bootleggers" I think I meant thank the guys who actually sneaked some type of audio recorder in the room and put it online.
Chuck, don't feel too bad here. We know your heart is in the right place when it comes to appreciating the music. Just give a little more thought process to how it got here and where it came from,
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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by coffeepotman » 22 Mar 2015, 7:25am

Don't know if this was posted before but found it in my fb feed this am. does anybody know if there is an english version?


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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by coffeepotman » 22 Mar 2015, 7:34am

When I first moved to NY in 1988 I was a "bootlegger" or "tape trader", more like a bootlegger but really neither. I would go to shows and record them with a pretty high quality (for those days) Sony tape recorder and then sell the tapes on St. Marks Place, usually within a couple of days. I had a partner who had a business doing that. St Marks Place back then was full of book sellers and junk sellers and boutiques and record stores. Not the Yuppieville it is now. I was in a stand right next to Trash and Vaudeville. If any band came by, which there were many, and objected most were cool and we just stopped selling their tapes. I got to meet a lot of my rock star heroes back then by doing this. Now what happened to my tapes after they were sold I had no control of and I know that my recording to Sonic Youth at Central Park was made into a CD and sold for usually 20-25$ at record stores. One of my recordings of Johnny Thunders was also made into a CD and sold elsewhere. Does that make me evil or just spreading the love and making some chump change.

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Re: TRAC Demo's

Post by Marky Dread » 22 Mar 2015, 8:00am

coffeepotman wrote:Don't know if this was posted before but found it in my fb feed this am. does anybody know if there is an english version?

You'd better ask bazarboy 75 as it's his post and he often 'round here.
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