Stone Thames

Mick Jones, Carbon/Silicon, BAD and cetera.
101Walterton
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by 101Walterton » 07 Sep 2017, 10:10pm

Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 07 Sep 2017, 10:40pm

101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:10pm
Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?
Both. Joe added to the “Joe Public” stuff on the bridge of Complete Control.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs » 08 Sep 2017, 5:55am

Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?

Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston » 08 Sep 2017, 6:23am

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Low Down Low » 08 Sep 2017, 7:24am

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston » 08 Sep 2017, 7:28am

Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:24am
Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.
I think the collective Clash credit was a show of unity or something, but behind the scenes I think everything was being divvied up according to exactly who wrote it, which is the fairest way I think. Also regarding your point about Ivan, I'm pretty sure Joe wrote that lyric rather than Topper having sole responsibility. I don't have the songbook at hand but there were no sole writing credits, every song was a collaboration to some degree.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Low Down Low » 08 Sep 2017, 7:43am

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:28am
Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:24am
Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.
I think the collective Clash credit was a show of unity or something, but behind the scenes I think everything was being divvied up according to exactly who wrote it, which is the fairest way I think. Also regarding your point about Ivan, I'm pretty sure Joe wrote that lyric rather than Topper having sole responsibility. I don't have the songbook at hand but there were no sole writing credits, every song was a collaboration to some degree.
Yeah sorry, Joe did write Ivan. I don't have Gray to hand but there is some discussion about S! writing credits in it, but I'm hazy on the details. I think personally I'd like them to have been a collective credit band, I'm surprised they wouldn't have been from the beginning, though maybe that's just a naive and idealistic view of things.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Marky Dread » 08 Sep 2017, 11:54am

I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
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Kory
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Kory » 08 Sep 2017, 12:19pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:10pm
Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?
Both. Joe added to the “Joe Public” stuff on the bridge of Complete Control.
You mean Mick didn't write that classic "blagharagarhahragahah" line?
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Kory
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Kory » 08 Sep 2017, 12:20pm

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
I'm pretty surprised Paul was able to play in 3/4, unless that's Watt-Roy all over the song that Paul co-wrote. Rude, if so.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

MarkyJacobs
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Joined: 30 Jan 2016, 7:41am

Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs » 08 Sep 2017, 3:46pm

Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?

Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston » 08 Sep 2017, 7:04pm

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 3:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?
The track itself is a waste of vinyl.

Thread drift is common and fine.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

Marky Dread
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Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 35340
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Stone Thames

Post by Marky Dread » 08 Sep 2017, 7:51pm

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 3:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?
Too much cocaine and koka kola. ;)
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Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston » 08 Sep 2017, 7:55pm

Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:43am
I'd like them to have been a collective credit band, I'm surprised they wouldn't have been from the beginning, though maybe that's just a naive and idealistic view of things.
I personally think the writers should be paid for the writing and the performers paid for the performing but I can see how bones of contention may occur.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

MarkyJacobs
Dirty Punk
Posts: 128
Joined: 30 Jan 2016, 7:41am

Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs » 09 Sep 2017, 12:05am

Larry Levan used to play records (or parts of records) backwards at the Paradise Garage in New York. I was once shown the technique he used. It involved balancing and weighting the record on a paper cup and playing the underside by turning the cartridge head upside down.

Did this influence The Clash's decision to have a backwards track on Sandinista? Probably not. But I do think Mensforth Hill kind of works. It feels very much part of the album to me.

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