Stone Thames

Mick Jones, Carbon/Silicon, BAD and cetera.
101Walterton
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by 101Walterton »

Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?

TeddyB Not Logged In
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:10pm
Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?
Both. Joe added to the “Joe Public” stuff on the bridge of Complete Control.

MarkyJacobs
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs »

Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?

Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston »

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Low Down Low »

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston »

Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:24am
Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.
I think the collective Clash credit was a show of unity or something, but behind the scenes I think everything was being divvied up according to exactly who wrote it, which is the fairest way I think. Also regarding your point about Ivan, I'm pretty sure Joe wrote that lyric rather than Topper having sole responsibility. I don't have the songbook at hand but there were no sole writing credits, every song was a collaboration to some degree.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Low Down Low
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Low Down Low »

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:28am
Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:24am
Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
That's interesting. When it comes to royalties I'd have thought the publishing credits would be the ones that counted, but wasn't it with Sandinista! that the band changed to equal credit among all members? I think Marcus Gray argued that Topper would lose out because he'd lose his sole credit for Ivan, though I'd have thought equal credit for all tracks would mroe than compensate for that.
I think the collective Clash credit was a show of unity or something, but behind the scenes I think everything was being divvied up according to exactly who wrote it, which is the fairest way I think. Also regarding your point about Ivan, I'm pretty sure Joe wrote that lyric rather than Topper having sole responsibility. I don't have the songbook at hand but there were no sole writing credits, every song was a collaboration to some degree.
Yeah sorry, Joe did write Ivan. I don't have Gray to hand but there is some discussion about S! writing credits in it, but I'm hazy on the details. I think personally I'd like them to have been a collective credit band, I'm surprised they wouldn't have been from the beginning, though maybe that's just a naive and idealistic view of things.

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Marky Dread »

I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Kory »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:40pm
101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 10:10pm
Heston wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 8:01pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
07 Sep 2017, 7:02pm
Mick can write a lyric though.
He more or less single-handedly wrote my favourite song of all time (Complete Control) if the biogs are correct.
And Stay Free?
Both. Joe added to the “Joe Public” stuff on the bridge of Complete Control.
You mean Mick didn't write that classic "blagharagarhahragahah" line?
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

Kory
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Kory »

Heston wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 6:23am
MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 5:55am
Shouldn't we just take what it actually says on the record as official?
No it's a bit more complicated than that. What is registered at the publishers is different to what's on the label if the Complete Clash songbook is anything to go by. Rebel Waltz for instance was written by Joe and Paul but has a collective "The Clash" credit on Sandinista.
I'm pretty surprised Paul was able to play in 3/4, unless that's Watt-Roy all over the song that Paul co-wrote. Rude, if so.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

MarkyJacobs
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs »

Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?

Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston »

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 3:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?
The track itself is a waste of vinyl.

Thread drift is common and fine.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Marky Dread
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Marky Dread »

MarkyJacobs wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 3:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 11:54am
I wrote "Mensforth Hill" while walking around backwards for a day. I've yet to receive any royalties!
I remember hearing this for the first time and thinking the tape deck was playing up!

This thread seems to have gone off on a bit of a tangent?
Too much cocaine and koka kola. ;)
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Heston
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by Heston »

Low Down Low wrote:
08 Sep 2017, 7:43am
I'd like them to have been a collective credit band, I'm surprised they wouldn't have been from the beginning, though maybe that's just a naive and idealistic view of things.
I personally think the writers should be paid for the writing and the performers paid for the performing but I can see how bones of contention may occur.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

MarkyJacobs
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Re: Stone Thames

Post by MarkyJacobs »

Larry Levan used to play records (or parts of records) backwards at the Paradise Garage in New York. I was once shown the technique he used. It involved balancing and weighting the record on a paper cup and playing the underside by turning the cartridge head upside down.

Did this influence The Clash's decision to have a backwards track on Sandinista? Probably not. But I do think Mensforth Hill kind of works. It feels very much part of the album to me.

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