I agree with this 100%. It's certainly more interesting and innovative stylistically, and it makes a better and more cohesive statement. I guess we'll keep dreaming!Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pmThe whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:45pmIt does sound better than previous available copies for sure, but it's pretty impossible to polish a 9th generation tape or whatever those things come from. What's confusing to me is why some of those songs obviously come from a much cleaner generation while others are dirty and muffled as hell. It seems whoever had those earlier gens would also have earlier gens of all the songs.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:31pmWell the version I remixed and shared here I think is pretty decent sounding. However I am also fortunate to have a copy of Mick's tape which I do not have permission to share. I always respect those kind of wishes. I also share when and wherever I can. I do not like holding stuff back but sometimes my hands are tied. I also have copy of Joe's Crummy Bum Blues that I'm unable to share.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pmYou must have a different version from me. My copies of KYR, RAD, CJ, AT, IC, and DIAS all sound like they were recorded inside a sock. Compared to the much clearer files for STH, RTC, etc, it's a pretty jarring listen.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:18pm
Rat Patrol sounds pretty decent mate it might not be the pro release we would all love but it's certainly plenty listenable. You can hear the bass fine on there. Only the alt. version of KYR is poor sounding and even that is listenable for a boot.
So...what did Paul actually play on?
Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Last edited by Kory on 27 Oct 2017, 12:52pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
If I could go back and change one single piece of Clash history, apart from the obvious sackings of course, it'd be that some version of Mick's Rat Patrol was released instead of the rather anaemic CR. What a statement it would have been after the madness of S!, the critics would have had a field day and, as usual, they'd have been totally wrong.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Is Marky's version still around? Would love to give it a listen. As far as an official release goes - I just don't see it happening. Mick said he is done with further work on the Clash's back catalog and I really do think there is an element of not wanting to release it because Joe isn't around to give his blessing. We all know the Joe versus Mick story of Rat Patrol/Fort Bragg. I think Mick is conscious of the fact that it could appear that he was finally having his way because Joe was no longer here to say no. Crazy as that sounds - but Mick has always come across as that kind of guy. A good contrast is Let It Be...Naked. Paul gives his blessing (and actually supports) a release of Let It Be without the Spector overdubs. Lennon is no longer around to have any say in the matter. I like the "Get Back" versions where it is just the Beatles (and Preston) better than the official Let It Be - but I think a lot of people saw it as McCartney creating revisionist history because Lennon was no longer around to stand in his way. Mick is not McCartney (thank goodness). That said - I also think Joe would have given his blessing to a release of the Mick produced Fort Bragg recordings. They put the bad feelings of the sacking behind them relatively quickly and remained friends up until Joe's death.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
I thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pmThe whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:45pmIt does sound better than previous available copies for sure, but it's pretty impossible to polish a 9th generation tape or whatever those things come from. What's confusing to me is why some of those songs obviously come from a much cleaner generation while others are dirty and muffled as hell. It seems whoever had those earlier gens would also have earlier gens of all the songs.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:31pmWell the version I remixed and shared here I think is pretty decent sounding. However I am also fortunate to have a copy of Mick's tape which I do not have permission to share. I always respect those kind of wishes. I also share when and wherever I can. I do not like holding stuff back but sometimes my hands are tied. I also have copy of Joe's Crummy Bum Blues that I'm unable to share.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pmYou must have a different version from me. My copies of KYR, RAD, CJ, AT, IC, and DIAS all sound like they were recorded inside a sock. Compared to the much clearer files for STH, RTC, etc, it's a pretty jarring listen.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:18pm
Rat Patrol sounds pretty decent mate it might not be the pro release we would all love but it's certainly plenty listenable. You can hear the bass fine on there. Only the alt. version of KYR is poor sounding and even that is listenable for a boot.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
It is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:20pmI thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pmThe whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:45pmIt does sound better than previous available copies for sure, but it's pretty impossible to polish a 9th generation tape or whatever those things come from. What's confusing to me is why some of those songs obviously come from a much cleaner generation while others are dirty and muffled as hell. It seems whoever had those earlier gens would also have earlier gens of all the songs.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:31pmWell the version I remixed and shared here I think is pretty decent sounding. However I am also fortunate to have a copy of Mick's tape which I do not have permission to share. I always respect those kind of wishes. I also share when and wherever I can. I do not like holding stuff back but sometimes my hands are tied. I also have copy of Joe's Crummy Bum Blues that I'm unable to share.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Cheers MarkyMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:46pmIt is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:20pmI thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pmThe whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:45pmIt does sound better than previous available copies for sure, but it's pretty impossible to polish a 9th generation tape or whatever those things come from. What's confusing to me is why some of those songs obviously come from a much cleaner generation while others are dirty and muffled as hell. It seems whoever had those earlier gens would also have earlier gens of all the songs.Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:31pm
Well the version I remixed and shared here I think is pretty decent sounding. However I am also fortunate to have a copy of Mick's tape which I do not have permission to share. I always respect those kind of wishes. I also share when and wherever I can. I do not like holding stuff back but sometimes my hands are tied. I also have copy of Joe's Crummy Bum Blues that I'm unable to share.
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
It's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:12pmCheers MarkyMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:46pmIt is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:20pmI thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pmThe whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.Kory wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:45pm
It does sound better than previous available copies for sure, but it's pretty impossible to polish a 9th generation tape or whatever those things come from. What's confusing to me is why some of those songs obviously come from a much cleaner generation while others are dirty and muffled as hell. It seems whoever had those earlier gens would also have earlier gens of all the songs.
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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topperville
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Thanks. Certainly does - you’re one lucky man to have the tape. I’ve wanted it since the late 80’s when I first got a tape of “Rat Patrol” and the quality was shite! Thanks for your answers.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:38pmIt's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:12pmCheers MarkyMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:46pmIt is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:20pmI thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:02pm
The whole story about the tape being found in a drawer etc is an odd one for sure. I think it's obvious the bootleg is from two separate sources. Mick's tape is way better sounding but does (did) have some defects on it. It's salvagable but probably not for an official release. Overpowered By Funk is a different mix/version to the common boot. I think the reason it has never had and probably won't get an official releas is twofold Joe is no longer here to give his blessing and the fact it caused so much consternation first time 'round. Personally I would love to see it get an official release because I feel it vindicates Mick's mix as being the better version if not the more marketable.
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Does anyone have a nice summary of the differences between CR and Rat Patrol? I thought the most obvious differences were the two added tracks (Kill Time, Beautiful People (whatever their real titles were)), no OBF (except maybe?), longer STH, longer Sean Flynn, different vocal takes for SISOSIG and KYR, that little conga intro on RTC, and adding some of the b-sides?
I seem to be in the minority, but I think the CR changes were improvements. The new vocal takes were way better, particularly the non-double tracked Mick vocals. STH is an improvement too with excising that Alphabet City verse, specifically because of the dramatic break it creates after the "mama san says" part. I love Sean Flynn, but not enough to know what the hell the difference is between the regular and extended versions.
I seem to be in the minority, but I think the CR changes were improvements. The new vocal takes were way better, particularly the non-double tracked Mick vocals. STH is an improvement too with excising that Alphabet City verse, specifically because of the dramatic break it creates after the "mama san says" part. I love Sean Flynn, but not enough to know what the hell the difference is between the regular and extended versions.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
I would share it but I've promised I wouldn't and despite the sillIness here at times I am a man of integrity. Do you have the remixed version I made a while back with all the b-sides and intrumentals that I titled "Rat Patrol from Hell W10" ?topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 4:28pmThanks. Certainly does - you’re one lucky man to have the tape. I’ve wanted it since the late 80’s when I first got a tape of “Rat Patrol” and the quality was shite! Thanks for your answers.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:38pmIt's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:12pmCheers MarkyMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:46pmIt is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:20pm
I thought that Overpowered by Funk was not on Mick’s Rat Patrol tracklisting? But it’s on the tape you have? Confused I am! The tape you have is not of the original proposed release then?
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Integrity in this day and age is a good thing my man. I thought I had the remix you did but just searched my hard drive and couldn’t find it. There were four discs if I remember rightly?Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 5:08pmI would share it but I've promised I wouldn't and despite the sillIness here at times I am a man of integrity. Do you have the remixed version I made a while back with all the b-sides and intrumentals that I titled "Rat Patrol from Hell W10" ?topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 4:28pmThanks. Certainly does - you’re one lucky man to have the tape. I’ve wanted it since the late 80’s when I first got a tape of “Rat Patrol” and the quality was shite! Thanks for your answers.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:38pmIt's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:12pmCheers MarkyMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 1:46pm
It is the original. OBF was intended as an extra track on an additional 12" I believe. If TeddyB reads this he will be able to give you better facts.
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Yes that's correct plus some remixes.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 5:56pmIntegrity in this day and age is a good thing my man. I thought I had the remix you did but just searched my hard drive and couldn’t find it. There were four discs if I remember rightly?Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 5:08pmI would share it but I've promised I wouldn't and despite the sillIness here at times I am a man of integrity. Do you have the remixed version I made a while back with all the b-sides and intrumentals that I titled "Rat Patrol from Hell W10" ?topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 4:28pmThanks. Certainly does - you’re one lucky man to have the tape. I’ve wanted it since the late 80’s when I first got a tape of “Rat Patrol” and the quality was shite! Thanks for your answers.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:38pmIt's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:12pm
Cheers Marky
Hopefully TeddyB will confirm then. On another note - STH - is it the fade in intro as per SS or the full CoB version? I’ve been curious about that ever since SS came out.
https://mega.nz/#!ThUBxSpI!t-SBE7IJI9dA ... qIB91cMyFw
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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topperville
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Muchas gracias señorMarky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 6:29pmYes that's correct plus some remixes.topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 5:56pmIntegrity in this day and age is a good thing my man. I thought I had the remix you did but just searched my hard drive and couldn’t find it. There were four discs if I remember rightly?Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 5:08pmI would share it but I've promised I wouldn't and despite the sillIness here at times I am a man of integrity. Do you have the remixed version I made a while back with all the b-sides and intrumentals that I titled "Rat Patrol from Hell W10" ?topperville wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 4:28pmThanks. Certainly does - you’re one lucky man to have the tape. I’ve wanted it since the late 80’s when I first got a tape of “Rat Patrol” and the quality was shite! Thanks for your answers.Marky Dread wrote: ↑04 Nov 2017, 2:38pm
It's 6 mins 50 secs if that helps. So that's the SS version.
https://mega.nz/#!ThUBxSpI!t-SBE7IJI9dA ... qIB91cMyFw
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
OBF is on the complete reel of mixes Mick did for Rat Patrol, but was not included on the acetates that comprised the four sides meant for the “final” double album.
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Re: So...what did Paul actually play on?
Thanks TeddyBTeddyB Not Logged In wrote: ↑05 Nov 2017, 3:38amOBF is on the complete reel of mixes Mick did for Rat Patrol, but was not included on the acetates that comprised the four sides meant for the “final” double album.