Rat Patrol reconstruction

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by muppet hi fi » 17 Nov 2017, 9:50pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 9:27pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 7:37pm
So is the same tape that Glyn Johns would've used as the template for what became Combat Rock? I'm curious to know if he used this or if the band cut further demos. Apart from the obvious new vocal takes on the final CR mixes.
I don’t know the answer to that... And I ain’t asking. :!:

I personally don’t hear a thing on CR that’s not on this tape other than the vocals on those two songs. There are elements that are discarded or dismissed (most obviously the saxophone on SISOSIG). That’s the story Mick always tells, that Glyn would ask him if he could pull something out, and he would always petulantly say go ahead. There is also some sort of gate the drums (mainly the snare) are put through to beef up (rock up?) the sound. We’re told the band worked on the record in the Far East, and there is footage of them in the studio, but that could have been efforts at mixing and editing.
Not just the gated snare on Should I stay..., but fuzz effect on the bass. Also the rubbery effect on the bass on Red Angel Dragnet.

So Teddy - where does the US b-side mix of Cool Confusion stand? I very much like that version and think the stripped down Tom Waits-ian version is kinda dumb. Was the US b-side to SISOSIG the orginal mix, or was that Glyn? Topper's brushes and Paul's walking bass line really help advance that track (on the single mix).
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 17 Nov 2017, 10:14pm

I believe all mixes of Cool Confusion were done before Glyn Johns but the stripped-down version you cite is the one that was included on the Rat Patrol tape. The instrumental version included in Hell W10 has full drums. CK’s least favorite track!

I wonder who's idea the fuzz effect on the bass on SISOSIG was. Doesn’t seem like a Glyn sort of suggestion circa 1982, maybe Mick or Joe were thinking early Who though.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by muppet hi fi » 17 Nov 2017, 10:18pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:14pm
I believe all mixes of Cool Confusion were done before Glyn Johns but the stripped-down version you cite is the one that was included on the Rat Patrol tape. The instrumental version included in Hell W10 has full drums. CK’s least favorite track!

I wonder who's idea the fuzz effect on the bass on SISOSIG was. Doesn’t seem like a Glyn sort of suggestion circa 1982, maybe Mick or Joe were thinking early Who though.
Or Overend Watts from Mott the Hoople :cool:
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Marky Dread » 17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 18 Nov 2017, 5:40am

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
Yes, I hastily and mistakenly transcribed your Rat Patrol From Hell earlier from my iTunes instead of doing Rat Patrol From Ft.Bragg! Overpowered By Funk was indeed included at the end of the Electric Lady tape as an extra. It also means that Idle in Kangaroo Court was meant to finish the album, not Death is a Star. That was another egregious move by Glyn and company, bumbling their way into a multi-platinum album.

Anyone using this for research: please note that Marky’s above correction of the intended running order of the RPFFB album is correct.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Kory » 18 Nov 2017, 8:50pm

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Inder » 21 Nov 2017, 8:05pm

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 5:40am
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
Yes, I hastily and mistakenly transcribed your Rat Patrol From Hell earlier from my iTunes instead of doing Rat Patrol From Ft.Bragg! Overpowered By Funk was indeed included at the end of the Electric Lady tape as an extra. It also means that Idle in Kangaroo Court was meant to finish the album, not Death is a Star. That was another egregious move by Glyn and company, bumbling their way into a multi-platinum album.

Anyone using this for research: please note that Marky’s above correction of the intended running order of the RPFFB album is correct.
Hmmm...

So if we split it up into a double-LP,

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn
Car Jamming

SIDE 3
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London
Inoculated City

SIDE 4
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1

Does that look right? Maybe shift Car Jamming to Side 3 and bump Inoculated City to track one Side 4?

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Marky Dread » 21 Nov 2017, 8:53pm

Inder wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 8:05pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 5:40am
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
Yes, I hastily and mistakenly transcribed your Rat Patrol From Hell earlier from my iTunes instead of doing Rat Patrol From Ft.Bragg! Overpowered By Funk was indeed included at the end of the Electric Lady tape as an extra. It also means that Idle in Kangaroo Court was meant to finish the album, not Death is a Star. That was another egregious move by Glyn and company, bumbling their way into a multi-platinum album.

Anyone using this for research: please note that Marky’s above correction of the intended running order of the RPFFB album is correct.
Hmmm...

So if we split it up into a double-LP,

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn
Car Jamming

SIDE 3
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London
Inoculated City

SIDE 4
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1

Does that look right? Maybe shift Car Jamming to Side 3 and bump Inoculated City to track one Side 4?
Teddy and I debated this when I repaired and cleaned up the tape. Teddy likes the slow build of StH as the opener but I prefer the intro of KYR. Also side 3 of your choice is very week. I don't like the fact the Side one has 3 single tracks on it.
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Inder » 21 Nov 2017, 9:03pm

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 8:53pm
Teddy and I debated this when I repaired and cleaned up the tape. Teddy likes the slow build of StH as the opener but I prefer the intro of KYR. Also side 3 of your choice is very week. I don't like the fact the Side one has 3 single tracks on it.
I just split up the running order of the tape you listed into four tracks per side.

Is the tape supposed to be representative of what Mick had envisioned as the track order?

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Marky Dread » 21 Nov 2017, 9:17pm

Inder wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:03pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 8:53pm
Teddy and I debated this when I repaired and cleaned up the tape. Teddy likes the slow build of StH as the opener but I prefer the intro of KYR. Also side 3 of your choice is very week. I don't like the fact the Side one has 3 single tracks on it.
I just split up the running order of the tape you listed into four tracks per side.

Is the tape supposed to be representative of what Mick had envisioned as the track order?
No that's the original running order of the tape Mick gave to teddy. The track list I did is slightly further up in the thread and ends with DiaS. Regards the track sequence I believe so but teddy is the guy with better info than I.
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Nov 2017, 9:26pm

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
Why no Walk Evil Talk?

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Low Down Low » 21 Nov 2017, 9:32pm

I love the vision and ambition of Mick's version and wish that's what they'd ended up with, but always had trouble with the track sequencing. Would have gone for something like the following:

1
Know Your Rights
Car Jamming
Should I stay?
Red Angel Dragnet

2
Rock the Casbah
Atom Tan
Ghetto Defendant
Cool Confusion

3
Death is a Star
Sean Flynn
Straight to Hell

4
The Fulham Connection II
First Night Back in London
Inoculated City
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 21 Nov 2017, 9:33pm

Whatever the debate, this is the running order Mick had cut to acetates at Electric Lady for RPFFB. There is also a photo of the four sided sequence from Electric Lady that was posted here sometime back, maybe by C.K.

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn

SIDE 3
Car Jamming
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London

SIDE 4
Inoculated City
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Nov 2017, 9:35pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:26pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 6:36pm
Full disclosure: I do now have a copy of Rat Patrol from a cassette that was run off at Electric Lady in January of ‘82, before they left on tour of the Far East, but it’s not my work to make available, and I actually don’t believe Mick feels it’s his decision to let loose it into the wild (not that I’ve ever asked him). Sorry.

As we know, after shade was thrown at Mick’s mix, they continued to work in studios in Japan and Australia. This was the way things sat before they left New York:

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Atom Tan 2:42
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Death is a Star 3:13

By the way that was my running order Teddy, the original tape is this :

Straight to Hell 6:50 (with fade-in)
Know Your Rights 5:02 (with alternate vocals)
Rock the Casbah 3.49 (with congas intro)
Red Angel Dragnet 5:09
Should I Stay or Should I Go? 3:07 (with original vocals, including the Spanish backgrounds)
Ghetto Defendant 6:13
Sean Flynn 7:23
Car Jamming 3:51
The Fulham Connection II 3:47
Atom Tan 2:42
First Night Back in London 2:59
Inoculated City 4:26
Death is a Star 3:13
Cool Confusion 3:12
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1 5:04
Overpowered by Funk 6:03
Why no Walk Evil Talk?
I'm gonna assume no WET because it was more of a RPFFB outtake than a CR outtake. I answered my own question there but better that than a lingering awkwardness.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Inder » 21 Nov 2017, 9:42pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:35pm
I'm gonna assume no WET because it was more of a RPFFB outtake than a CR outtake. I answered my own question there but better that than a lingering awkwardness.
I don't think it's actually a song, just some doodling.
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:33pm
Whatever the debate, this is the running order Mick had cut to acetates at Electric Lady for RPFFB. There is also a photo of the four sided sequence from Electric Lady that was posted here sometime back, maybe by C.K.

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn

SIDE 3
Car Jamming
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London

SIDE 4
Inoculated City
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1
Three killer tracks to open would've been interesting.

Death is a Star is rightfully buried towards the end, the SIS flip washes away the weirdness of RAD, B-material like First Night and CC is hidden between good tracks like 'City/Idle/Connection and Car Jamming. It just might work!

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