Rat Patrol reconstruction

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

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For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

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Inder wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:42pm
Chuck Mangione wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:35pm
I'm gonna assume no WET because it was more of a RPFFB outtake than a CR outtake. I answered my own question there but better that than a lingering awkwardness.
I don't think it's actually a song, just some doodling.
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:33pm
Whatever the debate, this is the running order Mick had cut to acetates at Electric Lady for RPFFB. There is also a photo of the four sided sequence from Electric Lady that was posted here sometime back, maybe by C.K.

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn

SIDE 3
Car Jamming
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London

SIDE 4
Inoculated City
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1
Three killer tracks to open would've been interesting.

Death is a Star is rightfully buried towards the end, the SIS flip washes away the weirdness of RAD, B-material like First Night and CC is hidden between good tracks like 'City/Idle/Connection and Car Jamming. It just might work!
I would much prefer a single on each of the four sides along with a stronger album track then the weaker ones scattered in between . But either way I still wish this had come out instead of CR. Now of course it should be both as a double disc.

That way you get a marketable record for the label a compromise of the band/Glyn Johns and the original genius of Micks intention
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

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TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
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Forces have been looting
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Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
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"Without the common people you're nothing"

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.
No reason to be sorry, Marky. I was merely adjusting the official record.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Kory »

Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Marky Dread »

Kory wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 11:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
That's pretty much as I see it Kory. But then you know look at B.A.D. and consider how groundbreaking that first album was and how loads of bands in it's wake were doing the rock/dance/samples crossover thing. I don't hear a great deal of respect going to Mick for that.

The Clash in my opinion only really moved forward with their sound largely due to mick. Paul was mostly reggae, Joe was rockabilly/R&B and Mick was dance/technology. Remember Mick was known as rock 'n' roll Mick and then the band teased him and called him whack attack that is a big leap between the two. But Mick was much smarter than that and he had the vision to see where rock was heading. Never afraid of moving forward "now this sound is brave and wants to be free" and completely shedding that stupid punk rock straightjacket.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by aza »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 6:31am
Kory wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 11:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
That's pretty much as I see it Kory. But then you know look at B.A.D. and consider how groundbreaking that first album was and how loads of bands in it's wake were doing the rock/dance/samples crossover thing. I don't hear a great deal of respect going to Mick for that.

The Clash in my opinion only really moved forward with their sound largely due to mick. Paul was mostly reggae, Joe was rockabilly/R&B and Mick was dance/technology. Remember Mick was known as rock 'n' roll Mick and then the band teased him and called him whack attack that is a big leap between the two. But Mick was much smarter than that and he had the vision to see where rock was heading. Never afraid of moving forward "now this sound is brave and wants to be free" and completely shedding that stupid punk rock straightjacket.
thats so right Marky, esp that last sentence. I was one of the fools screaming at Mick to play "Stay Free" at those first shows at The World and was totally disgusted when he played "1999".. it took me too long to realize how punk he/it all truly was. I love CR because it feels like every influence is unified rather than going from genre to genre, but Rat Patrol is clearly superior- bold n boundary pushing in the way only Clash can do. Also,maybe they would have gone on further if it had came out. I write all this with Death Is A Star pro'll being a favorite track, so take it or leave it.. :)

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by white man »

aza wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 12:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 6:31am
Kory wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 11:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
That's pretty much as I see it Kory. But then you know look at B.A.D. and consider how groundbreaking that first album was and how loads of bands in it's wake were doing the rock/dance/samples crossover thing. I don't hear a great deal of respect going to Mick for that.

The Clash in my opinion only really moved forward with their sound largely due to mick. Paul was mostly reggae, Joe was rockabilly/R&B and Mick was dance/technology. Remember Mick was known as rock 'n' roll Mick and then the band teased him and called him whack attack that is a big leap between the two. But Mick was much smarter than that and he had the vision to see where rock was heading. Never afraid of moving forward "now this sound is brave and wants to be free" and completely shedding that stupid punk rock straightjacket.
thats so right Marky, esp that last sentence. I was one of the fools screaming at Mick to play "Stay Free" at those first shows at The World and was totally disgusted when he played "1999".. it took me too long to realize how punk he/it all truly was. I love CR because it feels like every influence is unified rather than going from genre to genre, but Rat Patrol is clearly superior- bold n boundary pushing in the way only Clash can do. Also,maybe they would have gone on further if it had came out. I write all this with Death Is A Star pro'll being a favorite track, so take it or leave it.. :)
Think there was a few of us guilty of that :lol:

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by WestwayKid »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:33pm
Whatever the debate, this is the running order Mick had cut to acetates at Electric Lady for RPFFB. There is also a photo of the four sided sequence from Electric Lady that was posted here sometime back, maybe by C.K.

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn

SIDE 3
Car Jamming
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London

SIDE 4
Inoculated City
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1
This would have made a fascinating album and looking at this track listing - seeing songs in different places - makes me rethink the whole flow of the LP.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by 101Walterton »

Marky Dread wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 6:31am
Kory wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 11:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
That's pretty much as I see it Kory. But then you know look at B.A.D. and consider how groundbreaking that first album was and how loads of bands in it's wake were doing the rock/dance/samples crossover thing. I don't hear a great deal of respect going to Mick for that.

The Clash in my opinion only really moved forward with their sound largely due to mick. Paul was mostly reggae, Joe was rockabilly/R&B and Mick was dance/technology. Remember Mick was known as rock 'n' roll Mick and then the band teased him and called him whack attack that is a big leap between the two. But Mick was much smarter than that and he had the vision to see where rock was heading. Never afraid of moving forward "now this sound is brave and wants to be free" and completely shedding that stupid punk rock straightjacket.
Mick grew up looking to America for new and exciting things, he never lost that interest.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Kory »

WestwayKid wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 2:27pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:33pm
Whatever the debate, this is the running order Mick had cut to acetates at Electric Lady for RPFFB. There is also a photo of the four sided sequence from Electric Lady that was posted here sometime back, maybe by C.K.

SIDE 1
Straight to Hell
Know Your Rights
Rock the Casbah
Red Angel Dragnet

SIDE 2
Should I Stay or Should I Go?
Ghetto Defendant
Sean Flynn

SIDE 3
Car Jamming
The Fulham Connection II
Atom Tan
First Night Back in London

SIDE 4
Inoculated City
Death is a Star
Cool Confusion
Idle in Kangaroo Court W1
This would have made a fascinating album and looking at this track listing - seeing songs in different places - makes me rethink the whole flow of the LP.
This guy was the first time I had seen that running order: http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com ... bragg.html. It blew my mind...along with Mick's more atmospheric mixes, this running order maximizes the creepy factor. I turned off the lights, lit a j, and listened in a haze that very night. The album presented this way is very interesting statement and I want to live inside it.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Kory »

aza wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 12:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 6:31am
Kory wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 11:18pm
Marky Dread wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 10:09pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
21 Nov 2017, 9:57pm
For the record, my copy didn’t come from MJ but from a friend of us both, who he had it run off for back in ‘82. So he’s got plausible deniability! Also, it’s not sequenced, though again the four “final” (not final) acetates are sequenced as above.
Sorry if I mislead anyone here. I wrongly assumed it came direct from MJ.

It's such a fascinating document. I love how it shows Micks vision of that time. Although the band chose the Glyn Johns route to cut down the length for a more commercial record. Micks RPfFB is a very commercial sounding record to my ears and I have no doubt to it's hit potential.
I wonder how different (if at all), the band's legacy would be if Mick's version had come out. LC as a double, S! as a triple, then another double with RP. It would have been a bold move, and I wonder if the band would now be lauded as one of the more ambitious bands of all time. Not that LC and S! don't already help with that legacy.
That's pretty much as I see it Kory. But then you know look at B.A.D. and consider how groundbreaking that first album was and how loads of bands in it's wake were doing the rock/dance/samples crossover thing. I don't hear a great deal of respect going to Mick for that.

The Clash in my opinion only really moved forward with their sound largely due to mick. Paul was mostly reggae, Joe was rockabilly/R&B and Mick was dance/technology. Remember Mick was known as rock 'n' roll Mick and then the band teased him and called him whack attack that is a big leap between the two. But Mick was much smarter than that and he had the vision to see where rock was heading. Never afraid of moving forward "now this sound is brave and wants to be free" and completely shedding that stupid punk rock straightjacket.
thats so right Marky, esp that last sentence. I was one of the fools screaming at Mick to play "Stay Free" at those first shows at The World and was totally disgusted when he played "1999".. it took me too long to realize how punk he/it all truly was. I love CR because it feels like every influence is unified rather than going from genre to genre, but Rat Patrol is clearly superior- bold n boundary pushing in the way only Clash can do. Also,maybe they would have gone on further if it had came out. I write all this with Death Is A Star pro'll being a favorite track, so take it or leave it.. :)
I think this is my favorite part about it (and something that CK was a big pusher of). Everything before was like "here's a reggae tune, here's a rockabilly tune," but RP offered something truly unique. The genre that CK called "mongrel rock" and I call "narco funk" (coined by the guy from the link in the first post of this thread) could have been outstanding if followed and developed for another album or two.
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

Yes, but to be honest, C.K. was also disappointed in the sound of RPFFB. His idea of Mongrel Rock, exemplified by the Lyceum gigs of October 1981, was noisier and more aggressive sounding than the studio version.

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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Kory »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
Yes, but to be honest, C.K. was also disappointed in the sound of RPFFB. His idea of Mongrel Rock, exemplified by the Lyceum gigs of October 1981, was noisier and more aggressive sounding than the studio version.
That's true, I forgot about his Car Jamming stance. I guess that's why I like the "narco funk" tag a little better, in that case.
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Re: Rat Patrol reconstruction

Post by Marky Dread »

Kory wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 4:17pm
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
22 Nov 2017, 3:28pm
Yes, but to be honest, C.K. was also disappointed in the sound of RPFFB. His idea of Mongrel Rock, exemplified by the Lyceum gigs of October 1981, was noisier and more aggressive sounding than the studio version.
That's true, I forgot about his Car Jamming stance. I guess that's why I like the "narco funk" tag a little better, in that case.
The fact that both you and CK coined terms to define the sounds speaks volumes to the ingenuity of the music.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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