Sandinista! Which format?

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!

Which format should it have been released as?

Triple
25
54%
Double
12
26%
Single
9
20%
EP
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 46

WestwayKid
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by WestwayKid » 22 Jan 2018, 4:31pm

Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
I'd also be curious. That song is epic.

Kory
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Kory » 22 Jan 2018, 5:27pm

WestwayKid wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 4:31pm
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
I'd also be curious. That song is epic.
Reading between the lines in the post, it seems like the song's length was probably a stumbling block.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Low Down Low
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Low Down Low » 22 Jan 2018, 5:51pm

Kory wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 5:27pm
WestwayKid wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 4:31pm
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
I'd also be curious. That song is epic.
Reading between the lines in the post, it seems like the song's length was probably a stumbling block.
Possibly, though it is only a couple of seconds longer than the crooked crooked beat.

Heston
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Heston » 22 Jan 2018, 5:52pm

Kory wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 5:27pm
WestwayKid wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 4:31pm
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
I'd also be curious. That song is epic.
Reading between the lines in the post, it seems like the song's length was probably a stumbling block.
Just use the single version, under 4 minutes.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Marky Dread
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Marky Dread » 22 Jan 2018, 6:38pm

Heston wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 5:52pm
Kory wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 5:27pm
WestwayKid wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 4:31pm
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
I'd also be curious. That song is epic.
Reading between the lines in the post, it seems like the song's length was probably a stumbling block.
Just use the single version, under 4 minutes.
The European 7" has the best mix.
"NIBBLED TO DEATH BY AN OKAPI"

101Walterton
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by 101Walterton » 22 Jan 2018, 9:21pm

Nine to Nine wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 1:22pm
Set out many years ago to make my perfect Sandinista! Mix, and wow, I have been working on this for a long time.

First I had to select the songs…plenty of easy decisions both ways (looking at you, GI Joe). For those songs on the borderline, I listened to them plenty of times, in different settings over several years. I read the lyrics and considered whether I thought they were necessary to tell the story of the album or flesh out the vibe. I tossed out plenty of songs I like, but wanted to confine it to those that I love, to get a Sandanista that was 100% goodness through and through.

While nitpicking I considered things like song length…for a while Hitsville was under consideration, because I like it, but at 4:21 its just too much of a not-quite-good-enough thing. Compare that to The Leader, which at a brisk 1:42 flies by. Not sure I would like The Leader as much if it were 4 and a half minutes long. The exception to this thinking is The Crooked Beat, which does drag on at 5:29. But, you know, this particular one is a crooked, crooked beat.

I ended up with 15 songs

Almost made it
Corner Soul
Charlie Don’t Surf
The Equalizer

Never had a chance
The Magnificent Seven
Somebody Got Murdered (although I love the first 30 seconds)
Side 6

Then I think I took even longer to put these 15 songs in the proper order. First I started trying out different orders, to see how songs sounded as they flowed from one into another. For example, the beginning of Up In Heaven sounds abrupt and clunky when separated from Lightning Strikes. There were hardly any songs that sounded good flowing into Up In Heaven…but I found one. I settled on a couple other pairs that I thought sounded good together. I chose Lets Go Crazy as the opener, my first thought being because the “Peace in the Carnival” segment would be a speed bump in the flow anywhere else. But eventually I came to see it as the perfect opener to the album. The Street Parade would be a good closer, especially as a bookend to Lets Go Crazy…but to me, If Music Could Talk has always felt like the closer, and I stuck with that. Then I tried to slot some of the others based pacing, and then considered lyrics and put together a couple songs that have similar themes.

Anyway, I’m really pleased with the final version. Feel free to tell me that I’m a clown. Or, grab your listening device, put this in as a playlist, and give it a whirl. Maybe there’s an improvement that could be made….

Let’s Go Crazy
Police On My Back
Rebel Waltz
The Call Up
The Leader
Washington Bullets
Look Here
Lose This Skin
One More Time
Kingston Advice
The Crooked Beat
Up In Heaven
Something About England
The Street Parade
If Music Could Talk
Obviously a rushed decision with not enough thought. No Charlie no Sandinista and that is without mention Mag7 and SGM!!!!

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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by WestwayKid » 23 Jan 2018, 9:44am

The problem is too many good songs to cut down to a double, but not enough to make it a solid triple. I'm content to live with it as a flawed - yet interesting - piece of music.

Heston
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Heston » 23 Jan 2018, 10:42am

WestwayKid wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 9:44am
The problem is too many good songs to cut down to a double, but not enough to make it a solid triple. I'm content to live with it as a flawed - yet interesting - piece of music.
That's why I always said it should have been 5 sides. You can then skin up or chop lines on the blank sixth side.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Nine to Nine
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Nine to Nine » 23 Jan 2018, 11:08am

Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
The easiest answer is that I don’t like Mag7 that much. It’s OK, I’ve just never connected with it. In my opinion, there are two great things about it:

the bassline
“Cops kickin’ gypsies on the pavement”….love that line

Other than that it doesn’t do much for me. I don’t like the “Don’t stop, give it all you’ve got” parts

I’m 48 years old and my introduction to The Clash was Combat Rock at age 12, and so I come to Sandinista after the fact. I don’t think I listened to Sandinista until 1991. Any sense of “groundbreaking” that Mag7 had in 1980 is lost on me.

As the most famous song on Sandinista, I’m sure I’ve heard Mag7 more than any other track on the album. That’s why I said it “never had a chance”…I was so familiar with it that my mind was already made up on that one before I started the project. I don’t mean to suggest that I find it among the worst…I do like it…I just knew that it would never make the cut if I was only including songs I loved

I did consider the fact that by cutting Mag7, opinions on my tracklist would be buried under a debate about Mag7…but avoiding disagreement is not a valid reason to include the track!

Nine to Nine
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Nine to Nine » 23 Jan 2018, 11:15am

Heston wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 2:31pm
An interesting choice of opening song and I would have kept the Street parade for last, but sorry, any Sandinista! that leaves out Corner Soul yet includes Look Here is instantly flawed. And Mag 7 just has to be in there, ditto Charlie and Somebody Got Murdered.
I included Look Here because it's unique. It doesn't sound like anything else on the record(s). Plus it's quick and fun.

I also connect with the sentiment: Live Life. "How You Know You're Not Gonna Up and Die?"

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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Nine to Nine » 23 Jan 2018, 11:23am

101Walterton wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 9:21pm
Obviously a rushed decision with not enough thought
:smile:

Charlie was the last cut...

Kory
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Kory » 23 Jan 2018, 1:13pm

Nine to Nine wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 11:08am
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
The easiest answer is that I don’t like Mag7 that much. It’s OK, I’ve just never connected with it. In my opinion, there are two great things about it:

the bassline
“Cops kickin’ gypsies on the pavement”….love that line

Other than that it doesn’t do much for me. I don’t like the “Don’t stop, give it all you’ve got” parts

I’m 48 years old and my introduction to The Clash was Combat Rock at age 12, and so I come to Sandinista after the fact. I don’t think I listened to Sandinista until 1991. Any sense of “groundbreaking” that Mag7 had in 1980 is lost on me.

As the most famous song on Sandinista, I’m sure I’ve heard Mag7 more than any other track on the album. That’s why I said it “never had a chance”…I was so familiar with it that my mind was already made up on that one before I started the project. I don’t mean to suggest that I find it among the worst…I do like it…I just knew that it would never make the cut if I was only including songs I loved

I did consider the fact that by cutting Mag7, opinions on my tracklist would be buried under a debate about Mag7…but avoiding disagreement is not a valid reason to include the track!
I can totally see this. I'm also oversaturated on this song to the point that I prefer Lightning Strikes these days. I'd probably include Mag7 on a Sandinista! comp just for completeness' sake, but on a career overview, I'd probably go with LS (in fact, I might have done on my last one).
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

101Walterton
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by 101Walterton » 23 Jan 2018, 2:01pm

Nine to Nine wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 11:23am
101Walterton wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 9:21pm
Obviously a rushed decision with not enough thought
:smile:

Charlie was the last cut...
It is the best song on the album.

Heston
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Heston » 23 Jan 2018, 8:18pm

101Walterton wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 2:01pm
Nine to Nine wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 11:23am
101Walterton wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 9:21pm
Obviously a rushed decision with not enough thought
:smile:

Charlie was the last cut...
It is the best song on the album.
Nah, that's Something About England or Corner Soul.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Low Down Low
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Re: Sandinista! Which format?

Post by Low Down Low » 24 Jan 2018, 7:31am

Nine to Nine wrote:
23 Jan 2018, 11:08am
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jan 2018, 3:52pm
Am curious to know on what basis The Mag 7, the greatest thing the Clash ever did (probably), “never stood a chance”. Was surely worth some consideration at the barest of minimums.
The easiest answer is that I don’t like Mag7 that much. It’s OK, I’ve just never connected with it. In my opinion, there are two great things about it:

the bassline
“Cops kickin’ gypsies on the pavement”….love that line

Other than that it doesn’t do much for me. I don’t like the “Don’t stop, give it all you’ve got” parts

I’m 48 years old and my introduction to The Clash was Combat Rock at age 12, and so I come to Sandinista after the fact. I don’t think I listened to Sandinista until 1991. Any sense of “groundbreaking” that Mag7 had in 1980 is lost on me.

As the most famous song on Sandinista, I’m sure I’ve heard Mag7 more than any other track on the album. That’s why I said it “never had a chance”…I was so familiar with it that my mind was already made up on that one before I started the project. I don’t mean to suggest that I find it among the worst…I do like it…I just knew that it would never make the cut if I was only including songs I loved

I did consider the fact that by cutting Mag7, opinions on my tracklist would be buried under a debate about Mag7…but avoiding disagreement is not a valid reason to include the track!
A very fair response I have to say. I’m a year older, S! was my first Clash album so Mag 7 has a personal resonance for me that no other Clash song can have. Some of the live versions - Shea, FHTE, Lochem, the 9 minuter from Bonds - immeasurably enhance that appeal.

It’s good to read different takes though. The crooked beat isn’t bad but one left field track I’d seriously consider for a scaled down S! is The Equalizer. Always liked that track and the way it segues into the call up.

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