Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Marky Dread
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:53pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:39pm
If there are good guys in this telling, it's the three new guys, especially Nick, who exhibits the most working-class spirit of solidarity. Your tolerance for accepting a psycholgical explanation for Joe's behaviour may vary, but to me he wasn't much better than Bernie. Talked a good game, especially in interviews, but in practice he almost predictably avoided the path of values in action. And then, not unlike Reagan and Thatcher, two of the obvious villains of the tale, he tossed them over as unwanted, unneeded, and undeserving workers. Bernie's an obvious shitheel, but he's an easy target. Joe's comduct at most junctions was appalling and arguably hypocritical.
Pretty much agree, though in Joe's defence he was having a pretty torrid time in his personal life.
Right, and I did mention it's up to the reader how much leeway you give to his problems (I mean, hey, I've dealt with depression my entire adult life; I know how it fucks up your brain). But if we judge solely on actions, Joe's treatment of his bandmates has an ugly parallel to what was happening to labour at this time. Not a book for the SNews crowd.
Sympathy towards your depression as I appreciate only too well how it messes shit up. But now put yourself at the forefront of one of the most famous rock 'n' roll bands with people citing you as the voice of a generation etc and see how you would figure.

Personally it's really no surprise it all turned to crap and Joe ended up a shell of his former self with wild ramblings etc.
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 6:37pm
Sympathy towards your depression as I appreciate only too well how it messes shit up. But now put yourself at the forefront of one of the most famous rock 'n' roll bands with people citing you as the voice of a generation etc and see how you would figure.

Personally it's really no surprise it all turned to crap and Joe ended up a shell of his former self with wild ramblings etc.
Of course, and my intent isn't to damn Joe as some kind of cynical monster. He was compromised psychologically and chemically. But understanding these personal failings, sympathizing and even empathizing, that doesn't change how it played out, how it manifested in his behaviour.
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 6:55pm
Marky Dread wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 6:37pm
Sympathy towards your depression as I appreciate only too well how it messes shit up. But now put yourself at the forefront of one of the most famous rock 'n' roll bands with people citing you as the voice of a generation etc and see how you would figure.

Personally it's really no surprise it all turned to crap and Joe ended up a shell of his former self with wild ramblings etc.
Of course, and my intent isn't to damn Joe as some kind of cynical monster. He was compromised psychologically and chemically. But understanding these personal failings, sympathizing and even empathizing, that doesn't change how it played out, how it manifested in his behaviour.
No real change since '77 going back to basics n' all. Stalinistic behaviour and year zero bullshit shedding all your friends and such like. You have to destroy in order to create said McLaren ...cheers Malcolm I'll have a buffalo girl and fries to go.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Spiff »

I'll buy my copy on August 1, when Mark comes to Minneapolis for a promo stop at a Moon Palace Books.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Equaliser »

Picked up a copy today at my local Barnes & Noble. They had several copies in stock so distribution seems good. I look forward to finally hearing what the hell was going on in the Clash camp 83-86. That was a tough time to be a Clash fan, the great live shows followed by silence and then finally Cut The Crap.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by aza »

Dear Mark and Ralph, a big thank you for your wonderful book, undoubtedly at the top about the band, perhaps only equaled by Salewicz for its deep research and insight. At a time when The Clash & Reagan are now remembered in legendary terms, to have both, along with Thatcher's policies and the striking miners plight, brought forth and rendered in actual human experience and toll, becomes vital to understanding where we are now. For me personally, since I had the chance to see this incarnation (Rutgers) at the praecipe of becoming a teenager, I finally understood how deep an impression this era Strummer had on me, defining masculinity and punk. The cartoonish aspect of his rabidness was completely lost on me at that time, much less any sense of manic-depression- I took it all deadly serious and can only really see, now, through your book, how much else I may have been absorbing. I believe your good intentions, intellect and commitment, and -I'm gathering big hearts, allowed people to open up and be incredibly revealing, and along with putting things in an actual day context, it made every page fascinating and alive. Bernie remains somewhat an enigma to me, not what or why he did what he did, but seemingly his inability to see himself other than being an innovator and a designated villian. That he may have, at some points, become what he wanted to fight. If anything, that conflict makes him more part of the band than any studio control. Regardless, deep gratitude for your part in keeping The Clash still mattering.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Inder »

I'll belatedly echo what everyone else has said here — great book, very well-situated and contextualized in terms of what was going on in the Americas and Europe over 1984-85. Absolutely essential.

An aside: I especially enjoyed Ralph and Mark going into the We Are The Clash thing, the idea of the fan-musician "strike the match/spill the gas" relationship which people tend to gloss over when deriding the song as just a bit of anti-MJ posturing. I can't recall if they brought it up in the book, but one of the early live lines was something like "playing my guitar down Queensland state / I see they way they feed upon / aborigine steak" which specifically refers back to an experience over the '82 Aus/NZ tour related in Redemption Song, where someone used the phrase "aborigine steak" in context of racism against Indigenous people/Clash fans. There's an interview with MJ around that time where he brings up the same story, so it obviously resonated with the band.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Kory »

Got my copy at BN, hoping to finish soon so I can take part here.
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by laxman »

Still waiting for Amazon uk to get it to me, but looking forward to it.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by matedog »

Just wrapped up the other day. This was a great read. A lot of time is spent on the busking tour which I guess I always found to be interesting, but never thought too much of. Clearly it was the absolute highlight for all three new guys and the book does a good job of emphasizing how unusual/ballsy a move it was. The political aspects were helpful as well to really give a lot more context to the new songs that Joe was writing.

Interesting take aways:
  • Hermann Young Wagner isn't the dude's real name. I can't remember it exactly, but it is listed in the book. Hey Ralph, did you try to get a hold of him at all?
    There was a demo Joe and Kosmo made with random mariachi musicians in late 84. This would be a fascinating listen if it ever surfaces (though I'm not holding my breath)
    Kosmo mentions that this time with the band was the lowest point of his life. Clearly he has regrets.
    Paul comes across as a non-factor in the whole escapade.
    We discussed Joe's mental state earlier, but he was a total mess as well around this time.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by matedog »

Also, thanks for the shout out in the acknowledgements. That was a complete surprise to me! I've had a lot of help with the megalist and Rattie in particular for reuploading all the shows after megaupload was shutdown.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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One part that struck me as intellectually and politically significant was related to the busking tour and Chumbawamba. There was a tension between the more overtly ideologically charged punk bands and the working class—should a leftist punk's primary loyalty be to the more ideologically pure or critical punk crowd or with the more politically diverse and numerically significant masses? An internal elite or messy populism? That's been a long-term problem on the left, a vanguardist tension that too often ends up regarding the working class as letting themselves (and the especially the leftist elite) down. It's a difficult question with no easy answer.
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Silent Majority »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 10:33am
One part that struck me as intellectually and politically significant was related to the busking tour and Chumbawamba. There was a tension between the more overtly ideologically charged punk bands and the working class—should a leftist punk's primary loyalty be to the more ideologically pure or critical punk crowd or with the more politically diverse and numerically significant masses? An internal elite or messy populism? That's been a long-term problem on the left, a vanguardist tension that too often ends up regarding the working class as letting themselves (and the especially the leftist elite) down. It's a difficult question with no easy answer.
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 11:56am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
09 Aug 2018, 10:33am
One part that struck me as intellectually and politically significant was related to the busking tour and Chumbawamba. There was a tension between the more overtly ideologically charged punk bands and the working class—should a leftist punk's primary loyalty be to the more ideologically pure or critical punk crowd or with the more politically diverse and numerically significant masses? An internal elite or messy populism? That's been a long-term problem on the left, a vanguardist tension that too often ends up regarding the working class as letting themselves (and the especially the leftist elite) down. It's a difficult question with no easy answer.
I believe it can be both.
Possible, I suppose, but in practice it has been maddeningly difficult.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by deny »

laxman wrote:
06 Aug 2018, 4:06pm
Still waiting for Amazon uk to get it to me, but looking forward to it.

same here
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