Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Heston
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Heston »

Just finished the book in 2 mammoth sittings, and all I can say is bravo to all involved. I've been waiting for years to hear the true story of what happened between 83 and 85 in the Clash camp, and here it is. Many thanks to Ralph and Mark for making this happen and the enormous amount of work they must have put in.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by deny »

Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 8:18am
Just finished the book in 2 mammoth sittings, and all I can say is bravo to all involved. I've been waiting for years to hear the true story of what happened between 83 and 85 in the Clash camp, and here it is. Many thanks to Ralph and Mark for making this happen and the enormous amount of work they must have put in.
I will be buying the book no doubt about that. How bad was that era Heston?
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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deny wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 12:15pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 8:18am
Just finished the book in 2 mammoth sittings, and all I can say is bravo to all involved. I've been waiting for years to hear the true story of what happened between 83 and 85 in the Clash camp, and here it is. Many thanks to Ralph and Mark for making this happen and the enormous amount of work they must have put in.
I will be buying the book no doubt about that. How bad was that era Heston?
What went on sounds torturous. All the time and money spent making that wretched album when they could have knocked something better out as a band in 3 days. But outside forces were at play and I don't think Joe was in very good mental shape at the time.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by deny »

Thanks Heston

How does Mick fair in all of this?
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Heston
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Heston »

deny wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 12:38pm
Thanks Heston

How does Mick fair in all of this?
Compared to Bernie and Joe, a saint.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

Inder
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Inder »

My copy is on the way — can't wait!

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by deny »

Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 1:48pm
deny wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 12:38pm
Thanks Heston

How does Mick fair in all of this?
Compared to Bernie and Joe, a saint.
Thanks Heston lastly where did you order your book from please?

Cheers

Mike
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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If there are good guys in this telling, it's the three new guys, especially Nick, who exhibits the most working-class spirit of solidarity. Your tolerance for accepting a psycholgical explanation for Joe's behaviour may vary, but to me he wasn't much better than Bernie. Talked a good game, especially in interviews, but in practice he almost predictably avoided the path of values in action. And then, not unlike Reagan and Thatcher, two of the obvious villains of the tale, he tossed them over as unwanted, unneeded, and undeserving workers. Bernie's an obvious shitheel, but he's an easy target. Joe's comduct at most junctions was appalling and arguably hypocritical.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Heston »

deny wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:17pm
Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 1:48pm
deny wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 12:38pm
Thanks Heston

How does Mick fair in all of this?
Compared to Bernie and Joe, a saint.
Thanks Heston lastly where did you order your book from please?

Cheers

Mike
From the publisher mate, though you may want to wait until it's cheaper on Amazon. The link is further back in the thread, I'm on my phone and can't link to it. Took about 8 days to arrive.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Heston »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:39pm
If there are good guys in this telling, it's the three new guys, especially Nick, who exhibits the most working-class spirit of solidarity. Your tolerance for accepting a psycholgical explanation for Joe's behaviour may vary, but to me he wasn't much better than Bernie. Talked a good game, especially in interviews, but in practice he almost predictably avoided the path of values in action. And then, not unlike Reagan and Thatcher, two of the obvious villains of the tale, he tossed them over as unwanted, unneeded, and undeserving workers. Bernie's an obvious shitheel, but he's an easy target. Joe's comduct at most junctions was appalling and arguably hypocritical.
Pretty much agree, though in Joe's defence he was having a pretty torrid time in his personal life.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:39pm
If there are good guys in this telling, it's the three new guys, especially Nick, who exhibits the most working-class spirit of solidarity. Your tolerance for accepting a psycholgical explanation for Joe's behaviour may vary, but to me he wasn't much better than Bernie. Talked a good game, especially in interviews, but in practice he almost predictably avoided the path of values in action. And then, not unlike Reagan and Thatcher, two of the obvious villains of the tale, he tossed them over as unwanted, unneeded, and undeserving workers. Bernie's an obvious shitheel, but he's an easy target. Joe's comduct at most junctions was appalling and arguably hypocritical.
Pretty much agree, though in Joe's defence he was having a pretty torrid time in his personal life.
Right, and I did mention it's up to the reader how much leeway you give to his problems (I mean, hey, I've dealt with depression my entire adult life; I know how it fucks up your brain). But if we judge solely on actions, Joe's treatment of his bandmates has an ugly parallel to what was happening to labour at this time. Not a book for the SNews crowd.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Heston wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:48pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 2:39pm
If there are good guys in this telling, it's the three new guys, especially Nick, who exhibits the most working-class spirit of solidarity. Your tolerance for accepting a psycholgical explanation for Joe's behaviour may vary, but to me he wasn't much better than Bernie. Talked a good game, especially in interviews, but in practice he almost predictably avoided the path of values in action. And then, not unlike Reagan and Thatcher, two of the obvious villains of the tale, he tossed them over as unwanted, unneeded, and undeserving workers. Bernie's an obvious shitheel, but he's an easy target. Joe's comduct at most junctions was appalling and arguably hypocritical.
Pretty much agree, though in Joe's defence he was having a pretty torrid time in his personal life.
I'm only halfway through, but Kosmo notes on multiple occasions that the collective camp should have been more...sympathetic(not sure that's the best word) to Joe's personal problems. 1984 was a rough combo of having a new kid and both his parents dying while trying to reignite his band that took him halfway across the world from his family. By the end of the US tour in May, that momentum built from tour pretty much collapsed as Joe had to take care of his mom and be actually present for his daughter.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Thanks for the info CR. Not heard of that zine you mention.
Temp Slave was an American 'zine that ran during the mid- to late '90s, chronicling the temp industry's encroachment into our lives (as we knew them) at the time. Over time, it broadened into a critique of the workplace, and nature of work itself. TS was the brainchild of Jeff Kelly, who called himself Keffo, who wound it up in '98 or '9, I think, after collecting the more noteworthy articles into a "best of" that eventually got picked up by a mainstream publisher. It's called The Best Of Temp Slave, I believe, and well worth scouring online to find -- you might find be able to find a copy.

I mention this because -- though it's not in the book -- it fits the pattern that we talk about, of the steady erosion of working peoples' position at the expense of the Wall Street elite who play these sneaky panther power games with our lives. All part and parcel of this unhappy, increasingly threadbare pageant called life.
Just finished the book in 2 mammoth sittings, and all I can say is bravo to all involved. I've been waiting for years to hear the true story of what happened between 83 and 85 in the Clash camp, and here it is. Many thanks to Ralph and Mark for making this happen and the enormous amount of work they must have put in.
Indeed, it was -- because we didn't do what a lot of deadline-pressed writers do: sit down with a pile of rock magazines and just call it a day. We wanted to do something that would stand beyond the confines of our subject matter. Glad to see that you, and everyone else here, feels that we've succeeded.
Right, and I did mention it's up to the reader how much leeway you give to his problems (I mean, hey, I've dealt with depression my entire adult life; I know how it fucks up your brain). But if we judge solely on actions, Joe's treatment of his bandmates has an ugly parallel to what was happening to labour at this time. Not a book for the SNews crowd.
My personal hunch is that Joe was also a high-functioning alcoholic during this period. A lot of his more OTT moments, particularly during the Italian mini-tour, fit the criteria, in my humble opinion -- which almost seets up a chicken-and-egg scenario, doesn't it (which came first, the drink, or the depression?)? But I feel that his drinking, coupled with his apparent increasing reliance on pot, exacerbated what was already a difficult situation, given the pressures of trying to win acceptance for the band, plus the other stuff he was dealing with at the time (his father's death, mom's cancer, and becoming a parent).

So it's no wonder that, the center couldn't hold, and the whole situation imploded so messily. BR has a role in this, as well -- being someone who, by all accounts, functioned as a father figure for Joe, yet apparently didn't view emotional/mental support of his proteges as part of the managerial job description. This is something we heard over and over: a brilliant guy, totally driven and totally radical, yet one who seemingly cared more about his latest grand vision, than what the people involved might have to think or feel about it.

Of course, he's hardly the first manager to be accused of that, and Joe is hardly the first artist who doesn't always live up to the persona exhibited to the outside world -- and therein lies part of our tale.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Chairman Ralph wrote:
26 Jul 2018, 3:45pm
Thanks for the info CR. Not heard of that zine you mention.
Temp Slave was an American 'zine that ran during the mid- to late '90s, chronicling the temp industry's encroachment into our lives (as we knew them) at the time. Over time, it broadened into a critique of the workplace, and nature of work itself. TS was the brainchild of Jeff Kelly, who called himself Keffo, who wound it up in '98 or '9, I think, after collecting the more noteworthy articles into a "best of" that eventually got picked up by a mainstream publisher. It's called The Best Of Temp Slave, I believe, and well worth scouring online to find -- you might find be able to find a copy.
I've got a copy of the Temp Slave book. Marvellously therapeutic reading for anyone who hates their job … or should hate it.
This is something we heard over and over: a brilliant guy, totally driven and totally radical, yet one who seemingly cared more about his latest grand vision, than what the people involved might have to think or feel about it.
Perhaps the key distinction between Bernie and McLaren. Both used and abused their guys without a single nag of conscience, but where MM was a con man dressed up as an artist-revolutionary, Bernie appears to be more sincere about whatever the hell he thought he was doing. Which guy is worse, well, YMMV.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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Perhaps the key distinction between Bernie and McLaren. Both used and abused their guys without a single nag of conscience, but where MM was a con man dressed up as an artist-revolutionary, Bernie appears to be more sincere about whatever the hell he thought he was doing. Which guy is worse, well, YMMV.
Exactly, you hit right on the distinction between them. Over and over again, we heard: "BR doesn't want to do anything unless it's monumental, and groundbreaking, or else, he feels it's not worth his time." So, sincere -- yeah, definitely, but a sincerity that's often harnessed in the service of whatever plan is in the works at the moment...leaving those chosen to implement it secondary, and often left wanting. Or, as Nick told me when I first started all this -- you can't do that to people without clueing them in, "or they're bound to rebel, if they're not in on the game."

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