Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
JohnS
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by JohnS »

Apologies for the delay in posting my feedback (I ordered the book direct from the publisher month ago) but I always have a teetering tower of books to read and it's finally made it through the process.
Anyway any board member here should do give it a read also, with my full endorsement.
I never had much time for this incarnation of the band, but the way it has always been airbrushed out of the official Clash legend is unfair and needed to be corrected. For better or worse, Joe and co were active for a couple of years or so in the post-Mick era and this book fills in the story comprehensively and complements the usual Clash biographies which always gloss over this period.
The contemporary political climate is hugely relevant and well worth its inclusion here - the band weren't functioning in a 'pop music' vacuum and were always informed by and reactive to current affairs. As a Brit I was familiar with the Thatcher years and the miners strike, but learned a heck of a lot here about Reagan's rise and the US political dealings at the time. Presumably US readers will find it similarly enlightening from their side of things.
The decision by Thatcher to close down much of the UK's nationalised coal industry to 'save' public money was astonishing - naive and ill-thought through. It's been well documented how towns which had evolved around their local coal mine, once this industry was removed, descended into social disaster areas where, with unemployment rife across generations, crime and drug use soared and health standards plummeted. Regardless of the horrible effects on people's health and quality of life, any public fund savings were wiped out by the expense of increased health services and police expenditure. I was surprised to read the quote from Norman Tebbit in the book, saying as much, and that the decision to close coal mines to the degree they did was a mistake.
The early/mid 1980s were - as deny states above - a depressing time; All my favourite bands which had soundtracked my life for the previous few years - the Jam, Specials, Buzzcocks, among others - had split up. The Clash, or what was left of them, seemed to be treading water before also pulling the plug. In the real world, we found ourselves in an era of nuclear war dread and oppressive right wing government. I've buried a lot of this mindset away as the years went by, but this book revisits that vibe and for better or worse brings it all back vividly.
It's thoroughly researched and the interviewees are numerous and enlightening. And in hindsight the (to me) madness of the Clash Mk2 exercise is explained well in terms of Joe's private struggles, and Bernie Rhodes' management strategies. (Bernie still comes across as being bonkers at times)
This book may even get me to do the unthinkable and actually listen to CtC in its entirety (no, never done it yet believe it or not! But I have several boots of live and demo stuff)
Well done to Ralph and Mark. Worth a look, folks.
Ignore Alien Hors d'oeuvres

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by 101Walterton »

JohnS wrote:
07 Sep 2018, 8:16pm
Apologies for the delay in posting my feedback (I ordered the book direct from the publisher month ago) but I always have a teetering tower of books to read and it's finally made it through the process.
Anyway any board member here should do give it a read also, with my full endorsement.
I never had much time for this incarnation of the band, but the way it has always been airbrushed out of the official Clash legend is unfair and needed to be corrected. For better or worse, Joe and co were active for a couple of years or so in the post-Mick era and this book fills in the story comprehensively and complements the usual Clash biographies which always gloss over this period.
The contemporary political climate is hugely relevant and well worth its inclusion here - the band weren't functioning in a 'pop music' vacuum and were always informed by and reactive to current affairs. As a Brit I was familiar with the Thatcher years and the miners strike, but learned a heck of a lot here about Reagan's rise and the US political dealings at the time. Presumably US readers will find it similarly enlightening from their side of things.
The decision by Thatcher to close down much of the UK's nationalised coal industry to 'save' public money was astonishing - naive and ill-thought through. It's been well documented how towns which had evolved around their local coal mine, once this industry was removed, descended into social disaster areas where, with unemployment rife across generations, crime and drug use soared and health standards plummeted. Regardless of the horrible effects on people's health and quality of life, any public fund savings were wiped out by the expense of increased health services and police expenditure. I was surprised to read the quote from Norman Tebbit in the book, saying as much, and that the decision to close coal mines to the degree they did was a mistake.
The early/mid 1980s were - as deny states above - a depressing time; All my favourite bands which had soundtracked my life for the previous few years - the Jam, Specials, Buzzcocks, among others - had split up. The Clash, or what was left of them, seemed to be treading water before also pulling the plug. In the real world, we found ourselves in an era of nuclear war dread and oppressive right wing government. I've buried a lot of this mindset away as the years went by, but this book revisits that vibe and for better or worse brings it all back vividly.
It's thoroughly researched and the interviewees are numerous and enlightening. And in hindsight the (to me) madness of the Clash Mk2 exercise is explained well in terms of Joe's private struggles, and Bernie Rhodes' management strategies. (Bernie still comes across as being bonkers at times)
This book may even get me to do the unthinkable and actually listen to CtC in its entirety (no, never done it yet believe it or not! But I have several boots of live and demo stuff)
Well done to Ralph and Mark. Worth a look, folks.
Great post John 👍

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by deny »

101Walterton wrote:
07 Sep 2018, 11:03pm
JohnS wrote:
07 Sep 2018, 8:16pm
Apologies for the delay in posting my feedback (I ordered the book direct from the publisher month ago) but I always have a teetering tower of books to read and it's finally made it through the process.
Anyway any board member here should do give it a read also, with my full endorsement.
I never had much time for this incarnation of the band, but the way it has always been airbrushed out of the official Clash legend is unfair and needed to be corrected. For better or worse, Joe and co were active for a couple of years or so in the post-Mick era and this book fills in the story comprehensively and complements the usual Clash biographies which always gloss over this period.
The contemporary political climate is hugely relevant and well worth its inclusion here - the band weren't functioning in a 'pop music' vacuum and were always informed by and reactive to current affairs. As a Brit I was familiar with the Thatcher years and the miners strike, but learned a heck of a lot here about Reagan's rise and the US political dealings at the time. Presumably US readers will find it similarly enlightening from their side of things.
The decision by Thatcher to close down much of the UK's nationalised coal industry to 'save' public money was astonishing - naive and ill-thought through. It's been well documented how towns which had evolved around their local coal mine, once this industry was removed, descended into social disaster areas where, with unemployment rife across generations, crime and drug use soared and health standards plummeted. Regardless of the horrible effects on people's health and quality of life, any public fund savings were wiped out by the expense of increased health services and police expenditure. I was surprised to read the quote from Norman Tebbit in the book, saying as much, and that the decision to close coal mines to the degree they did was a mistake.
The early/mid 1980s were - as deny states above - a depressing time; All my favourite bands which had soundtracked my life for the previous few years - the Jam, Specials, Buzzcocks, among others - had split up. The Clash, or what was left of them, seemed to be treading water before also pulling the plug. In the real world, we found ourselves in an era of nuclear war dread and oppressive right wing government. I've buried a lot of this mindset away as the years went by, but this book revisits that vibe and for better or worse brings it all back vividly.
It's thoroughly researched and the interviewees are numerous and enlightening. And in hindsight the (to me) madness of the Clash Mk2 exercise is explained well in terms of Joe's private struggles, and Bernie Rhodes' management strategies. (Bernie still comes across as being bonkers at times)
This book may even get me to do the unthinkable and actually listen to CtC in its entirety (no, never done it yet believe it or not! But I have several boots of live and demo stuff)
Well done to Ralph and Mark. Worth a look, folks.
Great post John 👍
Yes very well said John :approve:
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Chairman Ralph »

Apologies for the delay in posting my feedback (I ordered the book direct from the publisher month ago) but I always have a teetering tower of books to read and it's finally made it through the process.
Anyway any board member here should do give it a read also, with my full endorsement.
I never had much time for this incarnation of the band, but the way it has always been airbrushed out of the official Clash legend is unfair and needed to be corrected. For better or worse, Joe and co were active for a couple of years or so in the post-Mick era and this book fills in the story comprehensively and complements the usual Clash biographies which always gloss over this period.
The contemporary political climate is hugely relevant and well worth its inclusion here - the band weren't functioning in a 'pop music' vacuum and were always informed by and reactive to current affairs. As a Brit I was familiar with the Thatcher years and the miners strike, but learned a heck of a lot here about Reagan's rise and the US political dealings at the time. Presumably US readers will find it similarly enlightening from their side of things.
The decision by Thatcher to close down much of the UK's nationalised coal industry to 'save' public money was astonishing - naive and ill-thought through. It's been well documented how towns which had evolved around their local coal mine, once this industry was removed, descended into social disaster areas where, with unemployment rife across generations, crime and drug use soared and health standards plummeted. Regardless of the horrible effects on people's health and quality of life, any public fund savings were wiped out by the expense of increased health services and police expenditure. I was surprised to read the quote from Norman Tebbit in the book, saying as much, and that the decision to close coal mines to the degree they did was a mistake.
The early/mid 1980s were - as deny states above - a depressing time; All my favourite bands which had soundtracked my life for the previous few years - the Jam, Specials, Buzzcocks, among others - had split up. The Clash, or what was left of them, seemed to be treading water before also pulling the plug. In the real world, we found ourselves in an era of nuclear war dread and oppressive right wing government. I've buried a lot of this mindset away as the years went by, but this book revisits that vibe and for better or worse brings it all back vividly.
It's thoroughly researched and the interviewees are numerous and enlightening. And in hindsight the (to me) madness of the Clash Mk2 exercise is explained well in terms of Joe's private struggles, and Bernie Rhodes' management strategies. (Bernie still comes across as being bonkers at times)
This book may even get me to do the unthinkable and actually listen to CtC in its entirety (no, never done it yet believe it or not! But I have several boots of live and demo stuff)
Well done to Ralph and Mark. Worth a look, folks.
Thanks, John, for all your thoughtful observations -- I'm glad you liked our work. Whether anyone agrees with our conclusions, or doesn't, they should know that we attended well to every detail.

The Tebbit quote is one example: I think I came across it during my frequent online searches. One of my roles during the creative was to act as the resident Internet sleuth, to turn up material that others might have overlooked or downplayed. The Tebbit quote is amazing, yeah -- I thought, "Well, what the hell did you think was going to happen?"

But it's also a reminder of how too many people like him are willing to keep their blinders on, keep their doubts under wraps, and carry water for their political bosses, because their dogma doesn't allow them any other options -- as the disastrous tax slash experiments in Kansas and Oklahoma have all too aptly proved, where both Republican governors said, "Public opinion be damned, just shut up and accept your role in our evil science experiment." It's hardly the first time this has happened, and it surely won't be the last.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by rudebhoy »

JohnS wrote:
07 Sep 2018, 8:16pm
Apologies for the delay in posting my feedback (I ordered the book direct from the publisher month ago) but I always have a teetering tower of books to read and it's finally made it through the process.
Anyway any board member here should do give it a read also, with my full endorsement.
I never had much time for this incarnation of the band, but the way it has always been airbrushed out of the official Clash legend is unfair and needed to be corrected. For better or worse, Joe and co were active for a couple of years or so in the post-Mick era and this book fills in the story comprehensively and complements the usual Clash biographies which always gloss over this period.
The contemporary political climate is hugely relevant and well worth its inclusion here - the band weren't functioning in a 'pop music' vacuum and were always informed by and reactive to current affairs. As a Brit I was familiar with the Thatcher years and the miners strike, but learned a heck of a lot here about Reagan's rise and the US political dealings at the time. Presumably US readers will find it similarly enlightening from their side of things.
The decision by Thatcher to close down much of the UK's nationalised coal industry to 'save' public money was astonishing - naive and ill-thought through. It's been well documented how towns which had evolved around their local coal mine, once this industry was removed, descended into social disaster areas where, with unemployment rife across generations, crime and drug use soared and health standards plummeted. Regardless of the horrible effects on people's health and quality of life, any public fund savings were wiped out by the expense of increased health services and police expenditure. I was surprised to read the quote from Norman Tebbit in the book, saying as much, and that the decision to close coal mines to the degree they did was a mistake.
The early/mid 1980s were - as deny states above - a depressing time; All my favourite bands which had soundtracked my life for the previous few years - the Jam, Specials, Buzzcocks, among others - had split up. The Clash, or what was left of them, seemed to be treading water before also pulling the plug. In the real world, we found ourselves in an era of nuclear war dread and oppressive right wing government. I've buried a lot of this mindset away as the years went by, but this book revisits that vibe and for better or worse brings it all back vividly.
It's thoroughly researched and the interviewees are numerous and enlightening. And in hindsight the (to me) madness of the Clash Mk2 exercise is explained well in terms of Joe's private struggles, and Bernie Rhodes' management strategies. (Bernie still comes across as being bonkers at times)
This book may even get me to do the unthinkable and actually listen to CtC in its entirety (no, never done it yet believe it or not! But I have several boots of live and demo stuff)
Well done to Ralph and Mark. Worth a look, folks.
Thatchers decision to close the pits was not driven by a desire to save public money, her aim was to crush the NUM, the most powerful union in the country and described by her as “the enemy within”. Far from saving money, the year long dispute cost a fortune and the alternative to coal was far more expensive, not that Thatcher cared, it was all about smashing the union.

Back in 1981, I was out on strike for 5 months in another dispute which nearly bankrupted the country. We caved in at the end, but the cost to the country of the dispute was ten times that of the pay award that Thatcher refused to implement, despite it being recommended by an independent body she set up.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by JohnS »

rudebhoy wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 2:49am
Thatchers decision to close the pits was not driven by a desire to save public money, her aim was to crush the NUM, the most powerful union in the country and described by her as “the enemy within”. Far from saving money, the year long dispute cost a fortune and the alternative to coal was far more expensive, not that Thatcher cared, it was all about smashing the union.

Back in 1981, I was out on strike for 5 months in another dispute which nearly bankrupted the country. We caved in at the end, but the cost to the country of the dispute was ten times that of the pay award that Thatcher refused to implement, despite it being recommended by an independent body she set up.
I remember the 'enemy within' quote. Yes I agree, Thatcher's policies went above and beyond financial motivation. She just had no empathy for working class activities and culture and wanted to control if not crush it - e.g. her plans for compulsory ID cards for football fans (which would have been extended eventually to the whole population)
Thankfully her single-mindedness ran out of steam with the poll tax which was universally despised - she insisted it went ahead. And then, finally, she had to go
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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by rudebhoy »

JohnS wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 8:02am
rudebhoy wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 2:49am
Thatchers decision to close the pits was not driven by a desire to save public money, her aim was to crush the NUM, the most powerful union in the country and described by her as “the enemy within”. Far from saving money, the year long dispute cost a fortune and the alternative to coal was far more expensive, not that Thatcher cared, it was all about smashing the union.

Back in 1981, I was out on strike for 5 months in another dispute which nearly bankrupted the country. We caved in at the end, but the cost to the country of the dispute was ten times that of the pay award that Thatcher refused to implement, despite it being recommended by an independent body she set up.
I remember the 'enemy within' quote. Yes I agree, Thatcher's policies went above and beyond financial motivation. She just had no empathy for working class activities and culture and wanted to control if not crush it - e.g. her plans for compulsory ID cards for football fans (which would have been extended eventually to the whole population)
Thankfully her single-mindedness ran out of steam with the poll tax which was universally despised - she insisted it went ahead. And then, finally, she had to go
On the subject of Thatcher, the Falklands War was the most cynical thing I've ever seen.

Months before she had refused to give the islanders British passports, thus signalling to Argentina that she couldn't give a shit about the islands which Britain had stolen from them in the days of empire. Argentina then invades the islands, and Thatcher, who is miles behind in the opinion polls and just about the most unpopular PM of all time, decides that rather than using diplomacy and the UN to resolve the dispute, she is going to have a bloody war against a weak foe, whipping up a patriotic frenzy and saving her skin at the next election.

May she rot in hell.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

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In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Chairman Ralph »

On the subject of Thatcher, the Falklands War was the most cynical thing I've ever seen.

Months before she had refused to give the islanders British passports, thus signalling to Argentina that she couldn't give a shit about the islands which Britain had stolen from them in the days of empire. Argentina then invades the islands, and Thatcher, who is miles behind in the opinion polls and just about the most unpopular PM of all time, decides that rather than using diplomacy and the UN to resolve the dispute, she is going to have a bloody war against a weak foe, whipping up a patriotic frenzy and saving her skin at the next election.

May she rot in hell.
I'm sure her air-conditioned suite is waiting -- may she feel the deep freeze that she freely dished out to so many others during her lifetime!

As for the Falklands, I can remember fewer conflicts that were more pointless, or more roundly condemned -- as illustrated by the breadth and width of musical condemnations streaming from the likes of Exploited (Let's Have A War), Pink Floyd (The Final Cut), and Crass, of course, with its classic LP, Yes Sir I Will.
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
I was living and working in London when the riots that finally toppled her took place. One thing that I vividly remember was the phrase that the Tories immediately wheeled out to condemn it -- "rent-a-mob" -- as if the policies that had all their grubby little paw prints all over them had nothing to do with it, and no bearing on the situation, to start with.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by 101Walterton »

Chairman Ralph wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 5:45pm
On the subject of Thatcher, the Falklands War was the most cynical thing I've ever seen.

Months before she had refused to give the islanders British passports, thus signalling to Argentina that she couldn't give a shit about the islands which Britain had stolen from them in the days of empire. Argentina then invades the islands, and Thatcher, who is miles behind in the opinion polls and just about the most unpopular PM of all time, decides that rather than using diplomacy and the UN to resolve the dispute, she is going to have a bloody war against a weak foe, whipping up a patriotic frenzy and saving her skin at the next election.

May she rot in hell.
I'm sure her air-conditioned suite is waiting -- may she feel the deep freeze that she freely dished out to so many others during her lifetime!

As for the Falklands, I can remember fewer conflicts that were more pointless, or more roundly condemned -- as illustrated by the breadth and width of musical condemnations streaming from the likes of Exploited (Let's Have A War), Pink Floyd (The Final Cut), and Crass, of course, with its classic LP, Yes Sir I Will.
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
I was living and working in London when the riots that finally toppled her took place. One thing that I vividly remember was the phrase that the Tories immediately wheeled out to condemn it -- "rent-a-mob" -- as if the policies that had all their grubby little paw prints all over them had nothing to do with it, and no bearing on the situation, to start with.
Rent a mob has it’s origins in South Africa House and Wapping print dispute. Long before poll tax riots.

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Kory »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 11:30am
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
If there's no such thing as society, then why are we forced to live in it?
"Suck our Earth dick, Martians!" —Doc

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 3:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 11:30am
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
If there's no such thing as society, then why are we forced to live in it?
My guess is that she'd say we don't—it's an illusion that perpetuates the injustice of confiscating wealth and subjecting rich people to the same laws as the barbarians.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 4:03pm
Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 3:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 11:30am
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
If there's no such thing as society, then why are we forced to live in it?
My guess is that she'd say we don't—it's an illusion that perpetuates the injustice of confiscating wealth and subjecting rich people to the same laws as the barbarians.
Let the peasants know who they are.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 5:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 4:03pm
Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 3:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 11:30am
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
If there's no such thing as society, then why are we forced to live in it?
My guess is that she'd say we don't—it's an illusion that perpetuates the injustice of confiscating wealth and subjecting rich people to the same laws as the barbarians.
Let the peasants know who they are.
For too damned long has the perversity of human rights existed, allowing those sub-creatures to think they're equal with God's favoured humans.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Clash II Book Coming Soon...Summer 2013

Post by Marky Dread »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 5:25pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 5:06pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 4:03pm
Kory wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 3:58pm
Dr. Medulla wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 11:30am
In my lifetime, Thatcher holds the distinction of the most vile thing said by a public official: "There is no such thing as society." That is, there's no such concept as the common good, of civic responsibility. We're all a bunch of predatory animals, so too fucking bad to the poor.
If there's no such thing as society, then why are we forced to live in it?
My guess is that she'd say we don't—it's an illusion that perpetuates the injustice of confiscating wealth and subjecting rich people to the same laws as the barbarians.
Let the peasants know who they are.
For too damned long has the perversity of human rights existed, allowing those sub-creatures to think they're equal with God's favoured humans.
Exactly. A low breed of humans with stupid ideas well above their existence.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

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