The Clash 2 Observations Thread

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matedog
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The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by matedog »

Clash 1 Songs Done Well or Interestingly by C2:
One More Time - 1984-12-06/07. We all know this version well, a radically reworking that bares very little similarity with the original. I'm not even sure if the chord progression is the same. I realized recently that the long intro is the strongest part of the song. Consequently, I don't know if the lyric pairs as well with the music. Perhaps Joe could have paired it with a new set of lyrics for a strong new tune.

Spanish Bombs - 1984-12-06/07. Pete employs a nifty little sparse reggae beat on the verse. I like the touch although when he comes in on the chorus, it's a typically Pete overbearing backbeat on a song that could really use a lighter touch. Those verses are pretty cool though.

WMHP - 1984-09-11. A pretty unusual show with Joe seemingly out of it or in a bad mood. This one is interesting because the song keeps going after the end with this nifty echo/bass/drums thing.

POMB/What's My Name - early 84/late 84 and 85. Uh, Paul.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by CorwoodRep »

I like the GEED version of Clampdown more than most Clash I versions. It's so much meaner.

The Clash II performances of Guns of Brixton are pretty much the only good performances of that song. Love the harmonica intro too.
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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Heston »

I like Paul's tighter bass playing.

I dislike the backing vocals and guitar sounds.
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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by daredevil »

I like Paul's bass playing in 84 too. The riff he added to the middle of Clampdown is pretty cool. (or it could've been
NIck's idea?)

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Heston »

Vince's bullet belt was wrong on every level.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Heston wrote:Vince was wrong on every level.
Let's just get rid of some unnecessary words.
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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Inder »

matedog wrote:Clash 1 Songs Done Well or Interestingly by C2:
One More Time - 1984-12-06/07. We all know this version well, a radically reworking that bares very little similarity with the original. I'm not even sure if the chord progression is the same. I realized recently that the long intro is the strongest part of the song. Consequently, I don't know if the lyric pairs as well with the music. Perhaps Joe could have paired it with a new set of lyrics for a strong new tune.

Spanish Bombs - 1984-12-06/07. Pete employs a nifty little sparse reggae beat on the verse. I like the touch although when he comes in on the chorus, it's a typically Pete overbearing backbeat on a song that could really use a lighter touch. Those verses are pretty cool though.

WMHP - 1984-09-11. A pretty unusual show with Joe seemingly out of it or in a bad mood. This one is interesting because the song keeps going after the end with this nifty echo/bass/drums thing.

POMB/What's My Name - early 84/late 84 and 85. Uh, Paul.
They fiddled with a bunch of arrangements for the miner's dates (and the late-84 mini tour of Italy) — I really dig the Spanish Bombs. Wouldn't call it reggae drumming, more of a galloping hihat thing that kind of clumsily falls into the chorus. The leads are entirely different and pretty neat. Radio Clash is different, too. Three Card Trick is more in line with the album version, skipping the where the first chorus used to be. Wonder how much of that was rust from not playing live for a few months. The guitar tone sounds pretty awful both miner's dates. Really thin.
Heston wrote: I dislike the backing vocals and guitar sounds.
Vince's high-register worked a lot better with Joe (ie: it was closer to Mick) than Nick's, which kind of rumbled along in unison. Too bad you can't really hear it most of the time.

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by John Pemberton »

I recently relistened to both miner's shows last week after not hearing them for a long time. I'll have to say they were really off on both those shows-really weak. But the set list had some interesting stuff like the mentioned One More Time and Capital Radio. Paul's version of What's My Name is awful.

I really hate Fingerpoppin--I can't believe they played it live. "the fingers gonna cause some noise when the girls point theirs to the best of the boys!"?????

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by matedog »

Inder wrote:
matedog wrote:Clash 1 Songs Done Well or Interestingly by C2:
One More Time - 1984-12-06/07. We all know this version well, a radically reworking that bares very little similarity with the original. I'm not even sure if the chord progression is the same. I realized recently that the long intro is the strongest part of the song. Consequently, I don't know if the lyric pairs as well with the music. Perhaps Joe could have paired it with a new set of lyrics for a strong new tune.

Spanish Bombs - 1984-12-06/07. Pete employs a nifty little sparse reggae beat on the verse. I like the touch although when he comes in on the chorus, it's a typically Pete overbearing backbeat on a song that could really use a lighter touch. Those verses are pretty cool though.

WMHP - 1984-09-11. A pretty unusual show with Joe seemingly out of it or in a bad mood. This one is interesting because the song keeps going after the end with this nifty echo/bass/drums thing.

POMB/What's My Name - early 84/late 84 and 85. Uh, Paul.
They fiddled with a bunch of arrangements for the miner's dates (and the late-84 mini tour of Italy) — I really dig the Spanish Bombs. Wouldn't call it reggae drumming, more of a galloping hihat thing that kind of clumsily falls into the chorus. The leads are entirely different and pretty neat. Radio Clash is different, too. Three Card Trick is more in line with the album version, skipping the where the first chorus used to be. Wonder how much of that was rust from not playing live for a few months. The guitar tone sounds pretty awful both miner's dates. Really thin.
I only called it a reggae beat because the bass drum is on the second and fourth beat which I've only ever heard in reggae beats. I could be mistaken though.

The Three Card Trick is interesting because it is the rock version, but has some structural changes more akin to the album version as you mentioned. They also do those "OH"s during the "I'll eat my hat" section which they did during the live ska versions in 85 and probably would have done on the album version but were cut out.

As a follow up to John's comment, I think Pete and Nick are really tight throughout both shows, but Joe is clearly very under rehearsed. On almost half the songs on the sixth, he forgets a verse and just shouts or poorly adlibs (Capital Radio for example). It's really a remarkable show in a sense of how interesting it is with all the arrangement changes and emphasis on Clash 2 songs (something like 40% of the setlist) and also how awful it is with the wretched Fingerpoppin, What's My Name and general Joe forgetfulness.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Rat Patrol »

Observation: This is the 1000th LGIT thread. Uncle Bernie would've wanted it that way.

With more drunken terrace chanting. :shifty:

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Heston »

Rat Patrol wrote:Observation: This is the 1000th LGIT thread. Uncle Bernie would've wanted it that way.

With more drunken terrace chanting. :shifty:
Wise kids and strEET teams make very good threads.
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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Rat Patrol »

matedog wrote:
Inder wrote:
matedog wrote:Clash 1 Songs Done Well or Interestingly by C2:
One More Time - 1984-12-06/07. We all know this version well, a radically reworking that bares very little similarity with the original. I'm not even sure if the chord progression is the same. I realized recently that the long intro is the strongest part of the song. Consequently, I don't know if the lyric pairs as well with the music. Perhaps Joe could have paired it with a new set of lyrics for a strong new tune.

Spanish Bombs - 1984-12-06/07. Pete employs a nifty little sparse reggae beat on the verse. I like the touch although when he comes in on the chorus, it's a typically Pete overbearing backbeat on a song that could really use a lighter touch. Those verses are pretty cool though.

WMHP - 1984-09-11. A pretty unusual show with Joe seemingly out of it or in a bad mood. This one is interesting because the song keeps going after the end with this nifty echo/bass/drums thing.

POMB/What's My Name - early 84/late 84 and 85. Uh, Paul.
They fiddled with a bunch of arrangements for the miner's dates (and the late-84 mini tour of Italy) — I really dig the Spanish Bombs. Wouldn't call it reggae drumming, more of a galloping hihat thing that kind of clumsily falls into the chorus. The leads are entirely different and pretty neat. Radio Clash is different, too. Three Card Trick is more in line with the album version, skipping the where the first chorus used to be. Wonder how much of that was rust from not playing live for a few months. The guitar tone sounds pretty awful both miner's dates. Really thin.
I only called it a reggae beat because the bass drum is on the second and fourth beat which I've only ever heard in reggae beats. I could be mistaken though.

The Three Card Trick is interesting because it is the rock version, but has some structural changes more akin to the album version as you mentioned. They also do those "OH"s during the "I'll eat my hat" section which they did during the live ska versions in 85 and probably would have done on the album version but were cut out.

As a follow up to John's comment, I think Pete and Nick are really tight throughout both shows, but Joe is clearly very under rehearsed. On almost half the songs on the sixth, he forgets a verse and just shouts or poorly adlibs (Capital Radio for example). It's really a remarkable show in a sense of how interesting it is with all the arrangement changes and emphasis on Clash 2 songs (something like 40% of the setlist) and also how awful it is with the wretched Fingerpoppin, What's My Name and general Joe forgetfulness.
If I remember correctly CK gleaned from his extensive Nick interview several years ago that they intentionally fucked around with the outboard guitar sound on that show to piss off Bernie, since he was at his asshole-worst at that particular point in time.

I can't think of a post-May show other than Rockscene Fest where Joe wasn't out of it. And Athens, which all insider/outsider accounts say was a pantheon-level show. Wasn't just the Xmas gigs; the September Italy dates were terrible too. You had a well-rehearsed threesome who'd pretty much diverged from isolation into their own (better) sound identity, AWOL Paul who wasn't with that program but got covered up by Nick doubling-up on him, and Joe not playing more than a few bwangs of guitar anymore and in general performing like he just met the other guys a half-hour before the show. Which he pretty much did. 'Out of Control: The Band' ended on a high note in Vancouver May 31. Everything after that was by some loosely-assembled other quasi-group.

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Rat Patrol »

12/6 is also stunning in that it is the ONLY regular gig (i.e. non-TV single performance) since its live debut 7/5/79 where London Calling was not played. And the 7th was the only time it was ever done as a set closer.

I would also say that show's the clearest Vince's backing vox ever were in the mix, maybe another consequence of them flipping off Bernie by seizing the SBD dials to change the guitar and vocal levels. He's quite good on Spanish Bombs (and Nick quite...not).

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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Wolter »

Rat Patrol wrote: You had a well-rehearsed threesome who'd pretty much diverged from isolation into their own (better) sound identity,
Maybe they should have sacked Joe and Paul...
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Re: The Clash 2 Observations Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Wolter wrote:
Rat Patrol wrote: You had a well-rehearsed threesome who'd pretty much diverged from isolation into their own (better) sound identity,
Maybe they should have sacked Joe and Paul...
That is so brilliantly drenched in IMCT-itude. Anyone on this board who doesn't want to molest that observation should be banned.
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