If Music Could Talk

Rat Patrol wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:Why do people feel the need to get personal against people because they dont want to share Bootlegs ?

The bootlegs are worthless and always sound awful anyway so who cares but if you want to hear them i wouldnt think being rude to people would achieve that.

I remember about 5 years ago someone from the CSI site was really treated badly hear and i know he has some fantastic studio material of Carbon silicon with full drums all playing faster and more exciting than the final releases . Why that stuff was never used is beyond me as it sounds amazing. Nearest i have heard to the clash.

I have to say there are some really kind people on this site that do share and you have to say they are legendary but ...

No one has a given right to have any bootleg stuff belonging to someone else - there is sometimes good reasons out of respect why they are not shared.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but these kinds of people are asking for ass-kicking:

1. The profiteers who withhold for absurd sums of money. But that's not a tape-trading issue to begin with.

2. People who boast and taunt about all the gold they've got but refuse to share. If you want to keep your recordings private, keep your thoughts private too. Don't talk about it unless somebody else asks or forces the issue, and dispense with your feelings quickly and matter-of-factly. People who feed their egos from that are acting like assholes, and should be called out for it.

3. People who blackmail or milk the things they don't want to share for personal leverage. i.e. "I've got a motherlode of this, and I never share...but if you internet assholes aren't nice to me and don't do exactly what I say and don't let ME be the biggest internet asshole around...the 0.001% chance I *might* share closes and I take my ball and go home." That's dirty pool, and if the game is rigged so you won't share what you already don't plan to share you're an asshole for trying to terrorize people with it.

4. People who insincerely trade for a rare tape under the guise of sharing it, then horde and/or be an asshole once they've got it in their collection. That's an abuse of the tape-trading community's trust, especially when the original taper may want it shared and want somebody else to do the sharing (usually because they don't personally know any reputable traders or want to get involved with the mechanics of it). If the original intent is to set it free, somebody who thwarts that intent is doing wrong. Hard to prove, however...the 3rd party has to have verifiable proof that the hording intermediary pulled a fast one to make this charge stick.


That's about it. And all of those conditions have one thing in common: people being all-around, general-purpose assholes for the sake of being assholes. It doesn't truly have anything to do with their bootlegs. As long as you're polite about it and don't be an asshole, what you do with your personal recordings is your business and the tape-trading community will respect that. People who don't respect that are acting like ignorant clods or need to learn themselves some tape-trading etiquette.

NoMoreHugh wrote:

Rat Patrol wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:Why do people feel the need to get personal against people because they dont want to share Bootlegs ?

The bootlegs are worthless and always sound awful anyway so who cares but if you want to hear them i wouldnt think being rude to people would achieve that.

I remember about 5 years ago someone from the CSI site was really treated badly hear and i know he has some fantastic studio material of Carbon silicon with full drums all playing faster and more exciting than the final releases . Why that stuff was never used is beyond me as it sounds amazing. Nearest i have heard to the clash.

I have to say there are some really kind people on this site that do share and you have to say they are legendary but ...

No one has a given right to have any bootleg stuff belonging to someone else - there is sometimes good reasons out of respect why they are not shared.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but these kinds of people are asking for ass-kicking:

1. The profiteers who withhold for absurd sums of money. But that's not a tape-trading issue to begin with.

2. People who boast and taunt about all the gold they've got but refuse to share. If you want to keep your recordings private, keep your thoughts private too. Don't talk about it unless somebody else asks or forces the issue, and dispense with your feelings quickly and matter-of-factly. People who feed their egos from that are acting like assholes, and should be called out for it.

3. People who blackmail or milk the things they don't want to share for personal leverage. i.e. "I've got a motherlode of this, and I never share...but if you internet assholes aren't nice to me and don't do exactly what I say and don't let ME be the biggest internet asshole around...the 0.001% chance I *might* share closes and I take my ball and go home." That's dirty pool, and if the game is rigged so you won't share what you already don't plan to share you're an asshole for trying to terrorize people with it.

4. People who insincerely trade for a rare tape under the guise of sharing it, then horde and/or be an asshole once they've got it in their collection. That's an abuse of the tape-trading community's trust, especially when the original taper may want it shared and want somebody else to do the sharing (usually because they don't personally know any reputable traders or want to get involved with the mechanics of it). If the original intent is to set it free, somebody who thwarts that intent is doing wrong. Hard to prove, however...the 3rd party has to have verifiable proof that the hording intermediary pulled a fast one to make this charge stick.


That's about it. And all of those conditions have one thing in common: people being all-around, general-purpose assholes for the sake of being assholes. It doesn't truly have anything to do with their bootlegs. As long as you're polite about it and don't be an asshole, what you do with your personal recordings is your business and the tape-trading community will respect that. People who don't respect that are acting like ignorant clods or need to learn themselves some tape-trading etiquette.

I can sympathise with your frustration but it is hard to understand why someone could be bothered to post and not deliver. But i guess the replying to their posts just fuels there ego but not there pockets.
My guess is that they do have the recordings just want lots of money for them - which is laughable for all the reasons that you have mentioned above.( i mean if they didnt exist how sad are they as people ) But then i do not know what is rare and what isnt so Maybe these 3 rules apply

Rule 1. If its too good to be true - it probably is
Rule 2. If nothing gets uploaded - it doesnt exist
Rule 3 If unsure refer to rule 1

The reality is that all bootlegs are worthless and no one is going to give more than pocket money for them, for the simple reason that there are hundreds and hundreds of recordings all sounding pretty much the same. If it was the only known live recording of the clash in existence then you could name your price other than that it is novelty value. Which is why so many bootleggers over the years have realised this and given there recordings away for free.

I think i read earlier one guy mentioned that all gigs were taped and looking at the regurlarity of all the recorded gigs that ended up for sale in markets you are too right. What i want to know is how did they get the recording tapes into the gigs i lost 2 devices from bouncers searching me and not returning them after the gig so after that i gave up. I was successful with one Big Audio dynamite gig - no sorry i dont have that recording any more.

Chuck Mangione wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:

Rat Patrol wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:Why do people feel the need to get personal against people because they dont want to share Bootlegs ?

The bootlegs are worthless and always sound awful anyway so who cares but if you want to hear them i wouldnt think being rude to people would achieve that.

I remember about 5 years ago someone from the CSI site was really treated badly hear and i know he has some fantastic studio material of Carbon silicon with full drums all playing faster and more exciting than the final releases . Why that stuff was never used is beyond me as it sounds amazing. Nearest i have heard to the clash.

I have to say there are some really kind people on this site that do share and you have to say they are legendary but ...

No one has a given right to have any bootleg stuff belonging to someone else - there is sometimes good reasons out of respect why they are not shared.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but these kinds of people are asking for ass-kicking:

1. The profiteers who withhold for absurd sums of money. But that's not a tape-trading issue to begin with.

2. People who boast and taunt about all the gold they've got but refuse to share. If you want to keep your recordings private, keep your thoughts private too. Don't talk about it unless somebody else asks or forces the issue, and dispense with your feelings quickly and matter-of-factly. People who feed their egos from that are acting like assholes, and should be called out for it.

3. People who blackmail or milk the things they don't want to share for personal leverage. i.e. "I've got a motherlode of this, and I never share...but if you internet assholes aren't nice to me and don't do exactly what I say and don't let ME be the biggest internet asshole around...the 0.001% chance I *might* share closes and I take my ball and go home." That's dirty pool, and if the game is rigged so you won't share what you already don't plan to share you're an asshole for trying to terrorize people with it.

4. People who insincerely trade for a rare tape under the guise of sharing it, then horde and/or be an asshole once they've got it in their collection. That's an abuse of the tape-trading community's trust, especially when the original taper may want it shared and want somebody else to do the sharing (usually because they don't personally know any reputable traders or want to get involved with the mechanics of it). If the original intent is to set it free, somebody who thwarts that intent is doing wrong. Hard to prove, however...the 3rd party has to have verifiable proof that the hording intermediary pulled a fast one to make this charge stick.


That's about it. And all of those conditions have one thing in common: people being all-around, general-purpose assholes for the sake of being assholes. It doesn't truly have anything to do with their bootlegs. As long as you're polite about it and don't be an asshole, what you do with your personal recordings is your business and the tape-trading community will respect that. People who don't respect that are acting like ignorant clods or need to learn themselves some tape-trading etiquette.

I can sympathise with your frustration but it is hard to understand why someone could be bothered to post and not deliver. But i guess the replying to their posts just fuels there ego but not there pockets.
My guess is that they do have the recordings just want lots of money for them - which is laughable for all the reasons that you have mentioned above.( i mean if they didnt exist how sad are they as people ) But then i do not know what is rare and what isnt so Maybe these 3 rules apply

Rule 1. If its too good to be true - it probably is
Rule 2. If nothing gets uploaded - it doesnt exist
Rule 3 If unsure refer to rule 1

The reality is that all bootlegs are worthless and no one is going to give more than pocket money for them, for the simple reason that there are hundreds and hundreds of recordings all sounding pretty much the same. If it was the only known live recording of the clash in existence then you could name your price other than that it is novelty value. Which is why so many bootleggers over the years have realised this and given there recordings away for free.

I think i read earlier one guy mentioned that all gigs were taped and looking at the regurlarity of all the recorded gigs that ended up for sale in markets you are too right. What i want to know is how did they get the recording tapes into the gigs i lost 2 devices from bouncers searching me and not returning them after the gig so after that i gave up. I was successful with one Big Audio dynamite gig - no sorry i dont have that recording any more.

I beg to differ.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:NoMoreHugh: if the CSi recordings you are discussing feature the Danny and William rhythm section, there was a falling out over (very) unreasonable contractual demands having nothing to do with money. If they were done with Segs and Ruffy (unlikely, as that was quite early and would not have featured much material you are referencing) then there was a falling out due to unreasonable financial demands. Additionally, Mick was not happy himself with the results of either session.

Flex wrote:I think those audience tapes a have a lot of value: a lot of cultural value. The value is in the shared engagement with a cultural artifact and having people participate in a social discourse. That makes them immensely valuable as shared, freely available cultural artifacts. But it also makes them basically worthless in a capitalist sense.

I don't get "angry" at people for hoarding bootlegs or whatever - it's not really on my radar screen to get angry about - but I'll admit it's not something I can morally get behind. I think everyone has a positive right to be able to experience and participate in the culture around them. Denying cultural/social/historical experiences to people for basically arbitrary reasons - or even worse, tethering it to one's ability to accumulate wealth - is something I think most right-headed people should find basically sickening.

I do sympathize with folks who sit on tapes because the person who gave it to them asked them not to circulate. One's oath should mean something, so in those cases I think there's a legitimate reason not to distribute.

NoMoreHugh wrote: ↑

30 Dec 2013, 4:30pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:

Rat Patrol wrote:

NoMoreHugh wrote:Why do people feel the need to get personal against people because they dont want to share Bootlegs ?

The bootlegs are worthless and always sound awful anyway so who cares but if you want to hear them i wouldnt think being rude to people would achieve that.

I remember about 5 years ago someone from the CSI site was really treated badly hear and i know he has some fantastic studio material of Carbon silicon with full drums all playing faster and more exciting than the final releases . Why that stuff was never used is beyond me as it sounds amazing. Nearest i have heard to the clash.

I have to say there are some really kind people on this site that do share and you have to say they are legendary but ...

No one has a given right to have any bootleg stuff belonging to someone else - there is sometimes good reasons out of respect why they are not shared.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but these kinds of people are asking for ass-kicking:

1. The profiteers who withhold for absurd sums of money. But that's not a tape-trading issue to begin with.

2. People who boast and taunt about all the gold they've got but refuse to share. If you want to keep your recordings private, keep your thoughts private too. Don't talk about it unless somebody else asks or forces the issue, and dispense with your feelings quickly and matter-of-factly. People who feed their egos from that are acting like assholes, and should be called out for it.

3. People who blackmail or milk the things they don't want to share for personal leverage. i.e. "I've got a motherlode of this, and I never share...but if you internet assholes aren't nice to me and don't do exactly what I say and don't let ME be the biggest internet asshole around...the 0.001% chance I *might* share closes and I take my ball and go home." That's dirty pool, and if the game is rigged so you won't share what you already don't plan to share you're an asshole for trying to terrorize people with it.

4. People who insincerely trade for a rare tape under the guise of sharing it, then horde and/or be an asshole once they've got it in their collection. That's an abuse of the tape-trading community's trust, especially when the original taper may want it shared and want somebody else to do the sharing (usually because they don't personally know any reputable traders or want to get involved with the mechanics of it). If the original intent is to set it free, somebody who thwarts that intent is doing wrong. Hard to prove, however...the 3rd party has to have verifiable proof that the hording intermediary pulled a fast one to make this charge stick.


That's about it. And all of those conditions have one thing in common: people being all-around, general-purpose assholes for the sake of being assholes. It doesn't truly have anything to do with their bootlegs. As long as you're polite about it and don't be an asshole, what you do with your personal recordings is your business and the tape-trading community will respect that. People who don't respect that are acting like ignorant clods or need to learn themselves some tape-trading etiquette.

I can sympathise with your frustration but it is hard to understand why someone could be bothered to post and not deliver. But i guess the replying to their posts just fuels there ego but not there pockets.
My guess is that they do have the recordings just want lots of money for them - which is laughable for all the reasons that you have mentioned above.( i mean if they didnt exist how sad are they as people ) But then i do not know what is rare and what isnt so Maybe these 3 rules apply

Rule 1. If its too good to be true - it probably is
Rule 2. If nothing gets uploaded - it doesnt exist
Rule 3 If unsure refer to rule 1

The reality is that all bootlegs are worthless and no one is going to give more than pocket money for them, for the simple reason that there are hundreds and hundreds of recordings all sounding pretty much the same. If it was the only known live recording of the clash in existence then you could name your price other than that it is novelty value. Which is why so many bootleggers over the years have realised this and given there recordings away for free.

I think i read earlier one guy mentioned that all gigs were taped and looking at the regurlarity of all the recorded gigs that ended up for sale in markets you are too right. What i want to know is how did they get the recording tapes into the gigs i lost 2 devices from bouncers searching me and not returning them after the gig so after that i gave up. I was successful with one Big Audio dynamite gig - no sorry i dont have that recording any more.

I beg to differ.

Hi Chuck

And you would be absolutely right to differ too because at the end of the day its just my opinion.
And for me thats why this forum is so great because at the end of the day freedom of speech is a wonderful thing - not to be under valued.

If we all agreed what a boring forum this would be

Tim Bucknall wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 12:17pm

Don't know where else to share this but while working on finding Nirvana tapes my colleagues found out that the taper of Clash II barrowlands show is likely Ian Taylor.
Once one of you has noted this down maybe delete this post? It's up to you guys

Heston wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 1:41pm

Tim Bucknall wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 12:17pm

Don't know where else to share this but while working on finding Nirvana tapes my colleagues found out that the taper of Clash II barrowlands show is likely Ian Taylor.
Once one of you has noted this down maybe delete this post? It's up to you guys

I don't understand this post. Who is Ian Taylor and what does he have to do with this thread?"

Chuck Mangione wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 7:41pm

He's saying that it's up to us guys to delete the post depending on whether or not it was posted before that Clash II's barrowlands show was taped by Ian Taylor, but it's unknown where else it should be shared that Nirvana tapes were found by working colleagues.

Dr. Medulla wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 7:48pm

Chuck Mangione wrote: ↑

08 Jul 2018, 7:41pm

He's saying that it's up to us guys to delete the post depending on whether or not it was posted before that Clash II's barrowlands show was taped by Ian Taylor, but it's unknown where else it should be shared that Nirvana tapes were found by working colleagues.

When you put it that way, well, duh!