The Clash observations thread.

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 16 Mar 2018, 2:10pm

WestwayKid wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 12:52pm
msza2 wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 12:09am
matedog wrote:
15 Mar 2018, 12:23pm
Heston wrote:
14 Mar 2018, 7:27pm
I've came to the conclusion that I think London Calling (the song) is Joe's best ever vocal performance. He wrings so much out of three or four notes. Great inflections and nuances that keep it interesting all the way through, and those screams are just fucking great. Maybe only Straight To Hell can match it.
Just listened to the Rock Band stem and it was quite a joy. Never struck me as my favorite, but I really only know of specific bits of certain songs that I just adore: second verse of Sound of Sinners where he just gets more and more worked up as the verse progresses, Corner Soul, Death or Glory where his voice cracks on "Every dragging beat," "Whoa, the harder they come, the home of ol' bluebeat, I'd stay and be a tourist but I can't take the gunplay" on SEH, the Tommy Gun outro.

Basically I love when his slips back into that gravelly thing when he gets really worked up. Which is weird because I hate his 1977 vocals. Mostly because it is clearly an affectation.
He really did have some great vocal quirks, didn't he? I'm also thinking about the 'acid test' line in Coma Girl. i'd guess he probably cultivated that sort of thing on purpose.
He was masterful at delivering perfectly nuanced vocals...even to the end as mentioned above about Coma Girl. I think he had a few duds and they really stand out because most of the time he just nailed it. Best example of "bad" Joe vocal?
Singing off key at the beginning of Garageland? He goes off key on Burning Lights as well, but somehow sells it. I guess "Boogie With Your Children" is probably a bad vocal take.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 16 Mar 2018, 2:11pm

Kory wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 12:51pm
Low Down Low wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 7:41am
What are folk's opinions on the stand out live London Calling performances? It's always fallen into the rare category for me of studio tracks that just didn't carry the same force live. Love Joe's vocal delivery on "Engines" second time round and fully endorse everything said about the song's greatness thus far.
That's a hard one because he so frequently screwed up the lyrics live that it takes a lot of the power away.
Am I misremembering or did he often switch the underworld/boys and girls lines live? Assuming erroneously.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Inder
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Inder » 16 Mar 2018, 2:20pm

matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:10pm
Singing off key at the beginning of Garageland?
He's singing the major third, very much on key. 😎

Boogie With Your Children is pioneering in the sense that it transcends music altogether.

matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 16 Mar 2018, 2:31pm

Inder wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:20pm
matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:10pm
Singing off key at the beginning of Garageland?
He's singing the major third, very much on key. 😎

Boogie With Your Children is pioneering in the sense that it transcends music altogether.
It's like a slow bend into the right note.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Inder
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Inder » 16 Mar 2018, 2:38pm

matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:31pm
Inder wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:20pm
matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:10pm
Singing off key at the beginning of Garageland?
He's singing the major third, very much on key. 😎

Boogie With Your Children is pioneering in the sense that it transcends music altogether.
It's like a slow bend into the right note.
Just slapped it on for a quick listen — I always heard that as him getting louder/stretching out the word, but I get what you mean.

Also, what a great song. Sound System really punched up the sound on that early stuff.

Kory
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Kory » 16 Mar 2018, 3:05pm

matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:11pm
Kory wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 12:51pm
Low Down Low wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 7:41am
What are folk's opinions on the stand out live London Calling performances? It's always fallen into the rare category for me of studio tracks that just didn't carry the same force live. Love Joe's vocal delivery on "Engines" second time round and fully endorse everything said about the song's greatness thus far.
That's a hard one because he so frequently screwed up the lyrics live that it takes a lot of the power away.
Am I misremembering or did he often switch the underworld/boys and girls lines live? Assuming erroneously.
That is correct, at least in most of the performances I've seen lately.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

WestwayKid
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by WestwayKid » 16 Mar 2018, 10:02pm

Inder wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:38pm
matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:31pm
Inder wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:20pm
matedog wrote:
16 Mar 2018, 2:10pm
Singing off key at the beginning of Garageland?
He's singing the major third, very much on key. 😎

Boogie With Your Children is pioneering in the sense that it transcends music altogether.
It's like a slow bend into the right note.
Just slapped it on for a quick listen — I always heard that as him getting louder/stretching out the word, but I get what you mean.

Also, what a great song. Sound System really punched up the sound on that early stuff.
Second the comment on SS and early stuff. Gives it a much more solid, aggressive vibe.

matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm

Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Kory
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Kory » 21 Mar 2018, 7:58pm

matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Can you remind me what the story was here?
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

BR16ADE_R055E
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by BR16ADE_R055E » 21 Mar 2018, 9:02pm

matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
If I recall correctly, DD got $5K for the 2 to 3 seconds in TFIU, so...

matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 22 Mar 2018, 10:01am

Kory wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 7:58pm
matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Can you remind me what the story was here?
There was a guy that shot footage of The Clash at Monterey in 79. There is a snippet of it in The Future is Unwritten of Joe crashing into Topper's kit. I included it in that weird tribute I made forever ago:


Daniel Garcia was working on Rise and Fall and was getting nowhere with the guy that owns the footage and I offered to get in touch as the guys office is in SF. I got nowhere with him and got some really weird responses from him. Here's an excerpt:
"He was not offering anything of substance in regards to footage price,rights,indemnity, ect. ! I therefore was giving nothing back so how are you any different in this regard ? Film making my man is a business first and foremost and not a dreamy glory sport for fools folly so let us get that straight immediately if we are to continue talk at all !

I do not like Corporate or for that matter Artistic Raiders making there precious little films for nothing on the backs of Filmmakers that were
in the trenches doing the hard work back in the day and now getting nothing for there hard efforts. Exploitation by Venture Vulture types exploiting to a great degree at some future date in time for there precious little new films is simply not where I'm at !

These new generation filmmakers were never there in the first place back in the day so why should I care about this project at all in my mind you are just in a long line of pretenders at best and that is not cool at all in my book especially when being unreasonable about footage value !"

I offered him $500 for the footage five years ago and I'll offer again. I figured if no one else is biting, then my offer might get sweeter.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Inder
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Inder » 22 Mar 2018, 10:46am

Oh man, I remember you telling us about that guy. Offer him $200 and a Big Mac.

Kory
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Kory » 22 Mar 2018, 1:37pm

matedog wrote:
22 Mar 2018, 10:01am
Kory wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 7:58pm
matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Can you remind me what the story was here?
There was a guy that shot footage of The Clash at Monterey in 79. There is a snippet of it in The Future is Unwritten of Joe crashing into Topper's kit. I included it in that weird tribute I made forever ago:


Daniel Garcia was working on Rise and Fall and was getting nowhere with the guy that owns the footage and I offered to get in touch as the guys office is in SF. I got nowhere with him and got some really weird responses from him. Here's an excerpt:
"He was not offering anything of substance in regards to footage price,rights,indemnity, ect. ! I therefore was giving nothing back so how are you any different in this regard ? Film making my man is a business first and foremost and not a dreamy glory sport for fools folly so let us get that straight immediately if we are to continue talk at all !

I do not like Corporate or for that matter Artistic Raiders making there precious little films for nothing on the backs of Filmmakers that were
in the trenches doing the hard work back in the day and now getting nothing for there hard efforts. Exploitation by Venture Vulture types exploiting to a great degree at some future date in time for there precious little new films is simply not where I'm at !

These new generation filmmakers were never there in the first place back in the day so why should I care about this project at all in my mind you are just in a long line of pretenders at best and that is not cool at all in my book especially when being unreasonable about footage value !"

I offered him $500 for the footage five years ago and I'll offer again. I figured if no one else is biting, then my offer might get sweeter.
I'd be concerned that he'd take the money and run, based on that message. In any case, I'd be willing to throw in some dough if it helps us get the footage.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by Marky Dread » 22 Mar 2018, 1:55pm

Kory wrote:
22 Mar 2018, 1:37pm
matedog wrote:
22 Mar 2018, 10:01am
Kory wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 7:58pm
matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Can you remind me what the story was here?
There was a guy that shot footage of The Clash at Monterey in 79. There is a snippet of it in The Future is Unwritten of Joe crashing into Topper's kit. I included it in that weird tribute I made forever ago:


Daniel Garcia was working on Rise and Fall and was getting nowhere with the guy that owns the footage and I offered to get in touch as the guys office is in SF. I got nowhere with him and got some really weird responses from him. Here's an excerpt:
"He was not offering anything of substance in regards to footage price,rights,indemnity, ect. ! I therefore was giving nothing back so how are you any different in this regard ? Film making my man is a business first and foremost and not a dreamy glory sport for fools folly so let us get that straight immediately if we are to continue talk at all !

I do not like Corporate or for that matter Artistic Raiders making there precious little films for nothing on the backs of Filmmakers that were
in the trenches doing the hard work back in the day and now getting nothing for there hard efforts. Exploitation by Venture Vulture types exploiting to a great degree at some future date in time for there precious little new films is simply not where I'm at !

These new generation filmmakers were never there in the first place back in the day so why should I care about this project at all in my mind you are just in a long line of pretenders at best and that is not cool at all in my book especially when being unreasonable about footage value !"

I offered him $500 for the footage five years ago and I'll offer again. I figured if no one else is biting, then my offer might get sweeter.
I'd be concerned that he'd take the money and run, based on that message. In any case, I'd be willing to throw in some dough if it helps us get the footage.
Pizza dough.
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matedog
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Re: The Clash observations thread.

Post by matedog » 22 Mar 2018, 1:55pm

Kory wrote:
22 Mar 2018, 1:37pm
matedog wrote:
22 Mar 2018, 10:01am
Kory wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 7:58pm
matedog wrote:
21 Mar 2018, 4:47pm
Just checked, I last contacted the guy with the Monterey footage almost five years ago. Thinking I'll check in again soon. Last time, I offered him $1K for the footage which he balked at. I'll see if the offer stands (though I'm way less able to throw out a grand for something like that these days).
*Edit* - I offered $500 not $1K five years ago.
Can you remind me what the story was here?
There was a guy that shot footage of The Clash at Monterey in 79. There is a snippet of it in The Future is Unwritten of Joe crashing into Topper's kit. I included it in that weird tribute I made forever ago:


Daniel Garcia was working on Rise and Fall and was getting nowhere with the guy that owns the footage and I offered to get in touch as the guys office is in SF. I got nowhere with him and got some really weird responses from him. Here's an excerpt:
"He was not offering anything of substance in regards to footage price,rights,indemnity, ect. ! I therefore was giving nothing back so how are you any different in this regard ? Film making my man is a business first and foremost and not a dreamy glory sport for fools folly so let us get that straight immediately if we are to continue talk at all !

I do not like Corporate or for that matter Artistic Raiders making there precious little films for nothing on the backs of Filmmakers that were
in the trenches doing the hard work back in the day and now getting nothing for there hard efforts. Exploitation by Venture Vulture types exploiting to a great degree at some future date in time for there precious little new films is simply not where I'm at !

These new generation filmmakers were never there in the first place back in the day so why should I care about this project at all in my mind you are just in a long line of pretenders at best and that is not cool at all in my book especially when being unreasonable about footage value !"

I offered him $500 for the footage five years ago and I'll offer again. I figured if no one else is biting, then my offer might get sweeter.
I'd be concerned that he'd take the money and run, based on that message. In any case, I'd be willing to throw in some dough if it helps us get the footage.
Yeah, I'm cautious about crowdfunding to purchase this. I don't really see raising more than $1K, but I suppose I could try and maybe solicit that fb group. This guy doesn't seem particularly warm to fan culture and I don't think cares about the band at all, so raising a chunk of change might just get him excited and think he has a bigger buyer somewhere else.

Ideally, I'd get the footage, sync up the good audio tape that we have and just distribute for free. No one cares about this shit but us, so I don't have delusions about trying to make money off of this.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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