eumaas wrote:From the LP? Dirty Punk, This is England--after that, it's more a matter of taste. I have a great soft spot for North and South for example.
Three Card gets points for actually incorporating a vocal harmony (same for N&S) but loses tons of points for seemingly trying to imitate Pete's drum part in the chorus but failing to have a snare on the first beat which makes it sound like the drum programmer kept realizing it was the chorus a few beats too late. The N&S drum programming is clunky and awkward, but I rather like the rest of the production INCLUDING the bridge which gets nice and thick and dissipates at the end before the last chorus or verse or whatever the "and so we saaaay" part is. England gets plus points for being RELATIVELY sparse and good use of guitar overdubs but loses points for the keyboards being so damn loud during the chorus. Oh and it has a good synth clave. Shit, I like the Fingerpoppin "gonna moooove" part and the busy parts don't sound as bad as the busy parts on the rest of the album.
In conclusion, there is no clear winner for CTC production fuck job. I'll lean towards this top 5
1. N&S
2. TIE
3. Fingerpopping
4. 3 Card
5. Dirty Punk
...
11. Are You Red...Y
12. Dictator
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
eumaas wrote:From the LP? Dirty Punk, This is England--after that, it's more a matter of taste. I have a great soft spot for North and South for example.
Three Card gets points for actually incorporating a vocal harmony (same for N&S) but loses tons of points for seemingly trying to imitate Pete's drum part in the chorus but failing to have a snare on the first beat which makes it sound like the drum programmer kept realizing it was the chorus a few beats too late. The N&S drum programming is clunky and awkward, but I rather like the rest of the production INCLUDING the bridge which gets nice and thick and dissipates at the end before the last chorus or verse or whatever the "and so we saaaay" part is. England gets plus points for being RELATIVELY sparse and good use of guitar overdubs but loses points for the keyboards being so damn loud during the chorus. Oh and it has a good synth clave. Shit, I like the Fingerpoppin "gonna moooove" part and the busy parts don't sound as bad as the busy parts on the rest of the album.
In conclusion, there is no clear winner for CTC production fuck job. I'll lean towards this top 5
1. N&S
2. TIE
3. Fingerpopping
4. 3 Card
5. Dirty Punk
...
11. Are You Red...Y
12. Dictator
I think Dirty Punk has the cleanest sound and execution of any track on CTC.
However for the period, Do It Now represents the best in Bernie's stylistic fusion.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman
I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy
eumaas wrote:From the LP? Dirty Punk, This is England--after that, it's more a matter of taste. I have a great soft spot for North and South for example.
Three Card gets points for actually incorporating a vocal harmony (same for N&S) but loses tons of points for seemingly trying to imitate Pete's drum part in the chorus but failing to have a snare on the first beat which makes it sound like the drum programmer kept realizing it was the chorus a few beats too late. The N&S drum programming is clunky and awkward, but I rather like the rest of the production INCLUDING the bridge which gets nice and thick and dissipates at the end before the last chorus or verse or whatever the "and so we saaaay" part is. England gets plus points for being RELATIVELY sparse and good use of guitar overdubs but loses points for the keyboards being so damn loud during the chorus. Oh and it has a good synth clave. Shit, I like the Fingerpoppin "gonna moooove" part and the busy parts don't sound as bad as the busy parts on the rest of the album.
In conclusion, there is no clear winner for CTC production fuck job. I'll lean towards this top 5
1. N&S
2. TIE
3. Fingerpopping
4. 3 Card
5. Dirty Punk
...
11. Are You Red...Y
12. Dictator
I think Dirty Punk has the cleanest sound and execution of any track on CTC.
However for the period, Do It Now represents the best in Bernie's stylistic fusion.
The call & answer guitar solo is all fucked up. The one comes in loud and clear and the answer is mixed so low it sounds like it thinks it might be a rhythm track.
Otherwise, it's alright and doesn't stray too far from the original recording. And it has feedback at the end.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
God damn it, now I'm listening to the entire album again.
We Are The Clash ain't so bad either. The guitar solo sounds like shit and they didn't need to add the synth congas there (though the synth congas do well in Cool Under Heat). I like the random background chants during the last verse and the little guitar doo-dahs as well. Joe yelling during the chorus is always fun too. Negative points for fade out.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
Cool Under Heat gets plus point for acoustic guitar and synth congas and good reverbed electric. The chorus might even be bigger than We Are the Clash's. Too bad Joe's vocals are inaudible. It suffers from PTW syndrome but is less avant garde. Does anyone else notice as the song fades out you hear Joe say something like "You can be...cool under heat"?
This my final list
1. N&S
2. TIE
3. Fingerpopping
4. 3 Card
5. Dirty Punk
6. Movers & Shakers
7. We Are the Clash
8.Cool Under Heat
9. Life is Wild - damned for the outro
10.Play to Win
11. Are You Red...Y
12. Dictator
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
101Walterton wrote:Pouring Rain is a great track and should have been recorded
I think the original versions are pretty lame. Obviously the Dope version is stellar though.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
101Walterton wrote:Pouring Rain is a great track and should have been recorded
Yeah, but they would have botched it. I'd rather remember it from that beautiful live May 84 version than whatever calypso-synth fusion nightmare it would have become on the album.
”INDER LOCK THE THE KISS THREAD IVE REALISED IM A PRZE IDOOT” - Thomas Jefferson
101Walterton wrote:Pouring Rain is a great track and should have been recorded
Yeah, but they would have botched it. I'd rather remember it from that beautiful live May 84 version than whatever calypso-synth fusion nightmare it would have become on the album.
True, in an ideal world The Clash would have recorded it. I love the gutar at the end though.
eumaas wrote:However for the period, Do It Now represents the best in Bernie's stylistic fusion.
Neutering Pete into oblivion with every dial turned the wrong way so he sounds like dub crapola, turning Paul up to 17 on the volume, burying Joe's vocals, and having the worst--THE WORST--incoherent terrace chanting of anything Bernie's cooties touched constitutes the best in stylistic fusion??? It takes real work and creativity to fuck the live band up that badly on record when they're just banging it out in one take singing into a can...visionary production sabotage. I hate that recording more than a few of the tracks the fake band recorded for the album because of the dog shit they somehow got all over the master tapes in between those spans of solid lyrics and catchy riff on the verses. That thing SHOULD have synths and a horn section...it pales in the unintentional hilarity dept. to the album.
Sex Mad Roar is a lot better except for the hideous new lyrics. Paul's still too loud, the chorus is again too loud, and I'm not nuts about Nick's twanging being cranked way up to drown out Vince...but at least it still sounds mostly like the live number without being put through a carnival funhouse mirror on the mixing deck like DIN.
Rat Patrol wrote:Neutering Pete into oblivion with every dial turned the wrong way so he sounds like dub crapola, turning Paul up to 17 on the volume, burying Joe's vocals, and having the worst--THE WORST--incoherent terrace chanting of anything Bernie's cooties touched constitutes the best in stylistic fusion??? It takes real work and creativity to fuck the live band up that badly on record when they're just banging it out in one take singing into a can...visionary production sabotage. I hate that recording more than a few of the tracks the fake band recorded for the album because of the dog shit they somehow got all over the master tapes in between those spans of solid lyrics and catchy riff on the verses. That thing SHOULD have synths and a horn section...it pales in the unintentional hilarity dept. to the album.
Sex Mad Roar is a lot better except for the hideous new lyrics. Paul's still too loud, the chorus is again too loud, and I'm not nuts about Nick's twanging being cranked way up to drown out Vince...but at least it still sounds mostly like the live number without being put through a carnival funhouse mirror on the mixing deck like DIN.
Which mix are you listening to? The remastered CD mix doesn't sound as atrocious as you're describing.
And keep in mind we're dealing with studio Clash II--any ratings are completely relative.
Stylistic fusion--merger of Oi!/street punk elements with ska, and then weird Rhodesisms--i.e., the mixing which isn't great, etc.
I get the impression that you don't really like Oi!, so I doubt you'd find the value in it I do. I also listen "beyond" the mix for this one as you have to do with almost all studio Clash II.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman
I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy
Rat Patrol wrote:Neutering Pete into oblivion with every dial turned the wrong way so he sounds like dub crapola, turning Paul up to 17 on the volume, burying Joe's vocals, and having the worst--THE WORST--incoherent terrace chanting of anything Bernie's cooties touched constitutes the best in stylistic fusion??? It takes real work and creativity to fuck the live band up that badly on record when they're just banging it out in one take singing into a can...visionary production sabotage. I hate that recording more than a few of the tracks the fake band recorded for the album because of the dog shit they somehow got all over the master tapes in between those spans of solid lyrics and catchy riff on the verses. That thing SHOULD have synths and a horn section...it pales in the unintentional hilarity dept. to the album.
Sex Mad Roar is a lot better except for the hideous new lyrics. Paul's still too loud, the chorus is again too loud, and I'm not nuts about Nick's twanging being cranked way up to drown out Vince...but at least it still sounds mostly like the live number without being put through a carnival funhouse mirror on the mixing deck like DIN.
Which mix are you listening to? The remastered CD mix doesn't sound as atrocious as you're describing.
And keep in mind we're dealing with studio Clash II--any ratings are completely relative.
Stylistic fusion--merger of Oi!/street punk elements with ska, and then weird Rhodesisms--i.e., the mixing which isn't great, etc.
I get the impression that you don't really like Oi!, so I doubt you'd find the value in it I do. I also listen "beyond" the mix for this one as you have to do with almost all studio Clash II.
I have the new mix too and it don't sound great. Rattie is exaggerating but the bass is way too loud and Pete's drums sound like they were filtered through the US Festival video boot filter (I'm trying to say they sound very thin and cheap).
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
The Clash do Oi! about as well as they do rap. Oi! doesn't do anything for me personally, but it sounds less hideously bad when done by groups that you can reasonably assume have listened to that kind of music in any quantity. Who in The Clash was listening to Oi!? Not retro Joe. Not Vince from what he described of his own tastes. Not Nick...he had his SRP sympathies like Joe. And nobody listened to what Pete had to say anyway. That sounds like Bernie's mental approximation of what Oi! sounds like as described in a magazine article, or by some wise MEN and street kids he overheard on the corner making a GREAT team*.
