If Music Could Talk

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:When I first heard "New York" by the Sex Pistols I was sure Rotten was singing :

"Your hippy talk's zero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

but it's,

"You're a hippy tart's hero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

A difference perhaps without a distinction, and one ofJ.R.'s weaker lyrics in general. Does it the tart refer to Vivienne or Cyrinda? Sable? Nancy? Of course it would be years before DJo ever actually put on a bad show.

I've not heard any stories of Vivienne being a fan and the fact that Malcolm left her to get on with things in London while he attempted to manage the dying NY Dolls we could probably rule her out. Would John Rotten even be aware of Sable Starr or Cyrinda Foxe? Nancy moved to London in '76 and New York was written/demoed in Jan '77 so it could be written with her in mind as she came over looking for Johhny and Jerry and tried it on with John prior to latching onto Sid.

I agree that New York is a weak lyric overall, but there's some great, spiteful turns of phrase.

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:When I first heard "New York" by the Sex Pistols I was sure Rotten was singing :

"Your hippy talk's zero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

but it's,

"You're a hippy tart's hero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

A difference perhaps without a distinction, and one ofJ.R.'s weaker lyrics in general. Does it the tart refer to Vivienne or Cyrinda? Sable? Nancy? Of course it would be years before DJo ever actually put on a bad show.

I've not heard any stories of Vivienne being a fan and the fact that Malcolm left her to get on with things in London while he attempted to manage the dying NY Dolls we could probably rule her out. Would John Rotten even be aware of Sable Starr or Cyrinda Foxe? Nancy moved to London in '76 and New York was written/demoed in Jan '77 so it could be written with her in mind as she came over looking for Johhny and Jerry and tried it on with John prior to latching onto Sid.

Maybe so. The only thing is that the Japan verse would be aimed at David (and Syl) as Johnny and Jerry were gone by then and Nancy's hero would not seem to be David. It's a small point (of course,this what we're reduced to!) and Lydon could be taking liberties.

Silent Majority wrote:I agree that New York is a weak lyric overall, but there's some great, spiteful turns of phrase.

I like it even if it does take the piss out of the Dolls. It seems very spiteful but I think it's done with a wicked gleam in the eye. Don't forget the Heartbreakers played on the Anarchy tour and while the lyrics don't directly mention Johnny the opening line of "An immitation from New York" it's an obvious slur. When played live and on the demo Rotten would sing "you poor liitle David you're sealed with a kiss" as opposed to "you poor little faggot" on the Bollocks version. John thought the New York scene was bullshit and arty and had nothing in common with the UK scene and the fact that the Heartbreakers had to come here to get recognition. Of course this isn't really true but he's entitled to his opinion and of course none of the US band were really like the Sex Pistols. The irony being the biggest influence on the Sex Pistols sound was the New York Dolls. And Bollocks was made with Steve Jones playing Sylvain's guitar.

Also "New York" gave us Johnny's fine riposte "London Boy's" which Steve and Paul played on on Johnny's "So Alone". I think all the Pistols were Dolls fans apart from John so this leads me to believe John's dig at the Dolls was just as much a dig at his band mates.

Yeah, hm. I can hear Lydon's voice intoning David's lyrics to Vietnamese Baby over the Dolls' backing track and it sounding an awful lot like the Pistols. When I first got the Anarchy single I thought it sounded like pop compared to the Stooges (no pun intended). Of course, I soon got the point. God Save the Queen sounds like Slade doing C'mon Feel the Noise with "situationist" lyrics. Again, that turned out to be the point. Fortunately, Lydon soon split with his band mates who made the Slade and a Dolls sounding music, and was able to intone the PiL music so beloved by so many posters on this board. I like some of it, especially on the first two albums.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:When I first heard "New York" by the Sex Pistols I was sure Rotten was singing :

"Your hippy talk's zero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

but it's,

"You're a hippy tart's hero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

A difference perhaps without a distinction, and one ofJ.R.'s weaker lyrics in general. Does it the tart refer to Vivienne or Cyrinda? Sable? Nancy? Of course it would be years before DJo ever actually put on a bad show.

I've not heard any stories of Vivienne being a fan and the fact that Malcolm left her to get on with things in London while he attempted to manage the dying NY Dolls we could probably rule her out. Would John Rotten even be aware of Sable Starr or Cyrinda Foxe? Nancy moved to London in '76 and New York was written/demoed in Jan '77 so it could be written with her in mind as she came over looking for Johhny and Jerry and tried it on with John prior to latching onto Sid.

Maybe so. The only thing is that the Japan verse would be aimed at David (and Syl) as Johnny and Jerry were gone by then and Nancy's hero would not seem to be David. It's a small point (of course,this what we're reduced to!) and Lydon could be taking liberties.

Oh it's definitely a dig at David and Syl going to tour Japan instead of coming to the UK. McLaren tried to get Syl to come to the UK to front the nascent Sex Pistols but only ended up with his White Gibson that he gave to Jones. The line "You think it's swell playing in Japan" bears this out.

I think this verse aimed at David is the most poisonous but accurate Johansen unlike Thunders and Nolan did not embrace the punk look. Compare the Heartbreakers on the Anarchy tour to how they looked in the Dolls. Remember in the punk years the length of your hair was a big thing. "We don't care about long hair, I don't wear flares". (Seventeen)

Four years on
You still look the same
I think it's about time
You changed your brain
You're just a pile of shit
You're coming to this
Ya poor litlle faggot
You're sealed with a kiss

Brilliantly scathing and with humour.

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:Yeah, hm. I can hear Lydon's voice intoning David's lyrics to Vietnamese Baby over the Dolls' backing track and it sounding an awful lot like the Pistols. When I first got the Anarchy single I thought it sounded like pop compared to the Stooges (no pun intended). Of course, I soon got the point. God Save the Queen sounds like Slade doing C'mon Feel the Noise with "situationist" lyrics. Again, that turned out to be the point. Fortunately, Lydon soon split with his band mates who made the Slade and a Dolls sounding music, and was able to intone the PiL music so beloved by so many posters on this board. I like some of it, especially on the first two albums.

Captain Sensible said The Damned fell about laughing when they first heard what their great rivals had released in competition to New Rose. He claimed "Anarchy in the UK" sounded like a Badfinger outtake with old man Steptoe singing over the top. It's not far wrong but The Damned would soon realize how brilliant it was and would go on to cover it live.

Captains comment is ironic too as the Sex Pistols rehearsed at No.6 Denmark St. and Malcolm had bought (?) the rehearsal room from Bill Collins father of actor Lewis Collins (The Professionals). The last band to rehearse at Denmark St. prior to the Sex Pistols were Badfinger.

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:When I first heard "New York" by the Sex Pistols I was sure Rotten was singing :

"Your hippy talk's zero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

but it's,

"You're a hippy tart's hero" 'cause you put on a bad show.

A difference perhaps without a distinction, and one ofJ.R.'s weaker lyrics in general. Does it the tart refer to Vivienne or Cyrinda? Sable? Nancy? Of course it would be years before DJo ever actually put on a bad show.

I've not heard any stories of Vivienne being a fan and the fact that Malcolm left her to get on with things in London while he attempted to manage the dying NY Dolls we could probably rule her out. Would John Rotten even be aware of Sable Starr or Cyrinda Foxe? Nancy moved to London in '76 and New York was written/demoed in Jan '77 so it could be written with her in mind as she came over looking for Johhny and Jerry and tried it on with John prior to latching onto Sid.

Maybe so. The only thing is that the Japan verse would be aimed at David (and Syl) as Johnny and Jerry were gone by then and Nancy's hero would not seem to be David. It's a small point (of course,this what we're reduced to!) and Lydon could be taking liberties.

Oh it's definitely a dig at David and Syl going to tour Japan instead of coming to the UK. McLaren tried to get Syl to come to the UK to front the nascent Sex Pistols but only ended up with his White Gibson that he gave to Jones. The line "You think it's swell playing in Japan" bears this out.

I think this verse aimed at David is the most poisonous but accurate Johansen unlike Thunders and Nolan did not embrace the punk look. Compare the Heartbreakers on the Anarchy tour to how they looked in the Dolls. Remember in the punk years the length of your hair was a big thing. "We don't care about long hair, I don't wear flares". (Seventeen)

Four years on
You still look the same
I think it's about time
You changed your brain
You're just a pile of shit
You're coming to this
Ya poor litlle faggot
You're sealed with a kiss

Brilliantly scathing and with humour.

Scathing, yes. Certainly not brilliant. Don't know about the humor.

Great phrasing on Rotten's "condemned to eternal bullshit."

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:God Save the Queen sounds like Slade doing C'mon Feel the Noise with "situationist" lyrics.

Now that would be something to hear!

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:

Marky Dread wrote:

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote: A difference perhaps without a distinction, and one ofJ.R.'s weaker lyrics in general. Does it the tart refer to Vivienne or Cyrinda? Sable? Nancy? Of course it would be years before DJo ever actually put on a bad show.

I've not heard any stories of Vivienne being a fan and the fact that Malcolm left her to get on with things in London while he attempted to manage the dying NY Dolls we could probably rule her out. Would John Rotten even be aware of Sable Starr or Cyrinda Foxe? Nancy moved to London in '76 and New York was written/demoed in Jan '77 so it could be written with her in mind as she came over looking for Johhny and Jerry and tried it on with John prior to latching onto Sid.

Maybe so. The only thing is that the Japan verse would be aimed at David (and Syl) as Johnny and Jerry were gone by then and Nancy's hero would not seem to be David. It's a small point (of course,this what we're reduced to!) and Lydon could be taking liberties.

Oh it's definitely a dig at David and Syl going to tour Japan instead of coming to the UK. McLaren tried to get Syl to come to the UK to front the nascent Sex Pistols but only ended up with his White Gibson that he gave to Jones. The line "You think it's swell playing in Japan" bears this out.

I think this verse aimed at David is the most poisonous but accurate Johansen unlike Thunders and Nolan did not embrace the punk look. Compare the Heartbreakers on the Anarchy tour to how they looked in the Dolls. Remember in the punk years the length of your hair was a big thing. "We don't care about long hair, I don't wear flares". (Seventeen)

Four years on
You still look the same
I think it's about time
You changed your brain
You're just a pile of shit
You're coming to this
Ya poor litlle faggot
You're sealed with a kiss

Brilliantly scathing and with humour.

Scathing, yes. Certainly not brilliant. Don't know about the humor.

"I think it's about time You changed your brain" don't know too many people who can do that. To me that's a humorous way of saying change the way you are thinking or maybe your attitude towards something. The last line "You're sealed with a kiss" is a great jibe at the Dolls "Looking for a Kiss". Hey I don't care about the put downs I love both bands equally. They both made records that I simply adore.

Silent Majority wrote:Great phrasing on Rotten's "condemned to eternal bullshit."

I love Rotten's diction on all the Pistols stuff. It really is like a razor blade cutting through the music. It's what makes his vocals so distinct along with his use of old speech like "Tatty Bye".

Byrds "My Back Pages"

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
And now I hate ice cream

tepista wrote:Byrds "My Back Pages"

Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
And now I hate ice cream

...Oh, ice cream was so much colder then,
I'm younger than that now!

teamwork!