Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

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Heston
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Heston »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 11:08am
Heston wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 10:58am
I liked the Beatles before they got into pot and acid but those first few albums were written on copious amounts of coffee and cigarettes, which are technically drugs. A lot of the great philosophers and thinkers used coffee as a tool to jump start their minds.
Sex and Coffee and Rock n Roll!

You've been watching Straight to Hell for too long.

I was sad when Sid Vicious died of a Kenco overdose. Only 21 years old. Such a shame as he had years of coffee drinking left in him.
:mrgreen:
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by hairydot61 »

Ah Post!, ...bill, ...bill,... bill,... bill happy birthday bill.
You'll just have to excuse me for a moment while I inject coffee into my eye and write a facimile of Naked Lunch including a line of cappachino of course.
Its always good to get a reaction to opinions and comments, the subject matter can divide opinion, thing is whenever you put pen to paper, finger to keyboard you leave yourself open, every action causes a reaction, fair enough, I'll state now, I know we're not going to agree on this but here goes, the good thing about being so open and posting stuff is it can be looked at again and evaluated, personally I feel that the reaction to the post I put up felt a bit knee jerk reaction, I don't feel like I was quoted out of context but I do feel my words and feel were misconstrude, ..I never mentioned the word 'Essential' (to take drugs) in the piece, didn't even allude to it.
The main message in the piece was pretty much pro choice, never said musicians who never take drugs ain't worth the media they release it on, you used the word 'denegrate' other musicians work, ...again I didn't even allude to it, I answered a generalisation, pretty much a carpet bombing theory from you, that to quote " anyone who says drugs helps the creative process is a wanker", I addressed that in the piece, I also never mentioned The Jam or XTC, never mentioned artists who are artistically bereft of ideas hiding behind drugs, I used an example of Bernard Sumners use of prosac to aid lyrics, an 'example' to aid the creative process, I also used ken Kesey as an example, he wrote One flew over the Cuckoos nest prior to using acid (I believe), did I make a judgement call?, I merely stated that after the acid experience he felt like he had nothing to prove, it possibly took away any Alpha male 'competitiveness', and he couldn't be bothered to better it, I'm sure I saw that on video or whatever of him talking about the experience, I also spoke from my own experience on the whys and wherefores of why I was cautious of class A's, including cautionary personal advice and examples of 'burnouts' including solo artists and bands that are still doing it, (balanced list), I understand what you say about the detrimental effects, deaths, break ups, ruined lives, I see it, big topic, the main beam of what I'd said previously is that musicians use drugs to open up creativity and I feel I gave a fair account of the otherside of your theory/argument call it what you will....... to quote Low down "I would note that of the artists merely writers I know and like who were either alcoholics or frequent drug takers, I would consider nearly all of them to have been chronic underachievers. Even Flann O'Brien who has 3 great novels to his name."
I never made a judgement call on whether it was a sucess or failure, it was for the sake of 'their art'  I mentioned Jazz musicians as an example never mentioned a specific period, as far as I know Coltrane was not on drugs when he made the album you mention, the main gist was whether the players were more creative and opened them up to other possibilites and musical experimentation, I also mentioned about certain bands having to re-record some music because drugs were detrimental to the process, a fair observation, but I also imagine the musicians that could handle it commited some performances to tape, just because they could.
Quote  MD " Drugs/Religion ...yep Rock n' Roll is my drug and religion of choice. That and a little precious thing called life." ...Fair play, thats your call, I'm pro choice and knew what I ment when I posted, opinions, opinions.
"There are no fairy tale endings with Cocaine", I didn't allude that there would be.
. "Bikini Reds a state of mind,
I'm in a state and She don't mind"
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    Disturbing the Comfortable

>>>>The Caped Curator<<<<

Marky Dread
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Marky Dread »

hairydot61 wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 4:41pm
Ah Post!, ...bill, ...bill,... bill,... bill happy birthday bill.
You'll just have to excuse me for a moment while I inject coffee into my eye and write a facimile of Naked Lunch including a line of cappachino of course.
Its always good to get a reaction to opinions and comments, the subject matter can divide opinion, thing is whenever you put pen to paper, finger to keyboard you leave yourself open, every action causes a reaction, fair enough, I'll state now, I know we're not going to agree on this but here goes, the good thing about being so open and posting stuff is it can be looked at again and evaluated, personally I feel that the reaction to the post I put up felt a bit knee jerk reaction, I don't feel like I was quoted out of context but I do feel my words and feel were misconstrude, ..I never mentioned the word 'Essential' (to take drugs) in the piece, didn't even allude to it.
The main message in the piece was pretty much pro choice, never said musicians who never take drugs ain't worth the media they release it on, you used the word 'denegrate' other musicians work, ...again I didn't even allude to it, I answered a generalisation, pretty much a carpet bombing theory from you, that to quote " anyone who says drugs helps the creative process is a wanker", I addressed that in the piece, I also never mentioned The Jam or XTC, never mentioned artists who are artistically bereft of ideas hiding behind drugs, I used an example of Bernard Sumners use of prosac to aid lyrics, an 'example' to aid the creative process, I also used ken Kesey as an example, he wrote One flew over the Cuckoos nest prior to using acid (I believe), did I make a judgement call?, I merely stated that after the acid experience he felt like he had nothing to prove, it possibly took away any Alpha male 'competitiveness', and he couldn't be bothered to better it, I'm sure I saw that on video or whatever of him talking about the experience, I also spoke from my own experience on the whys and wherefores of why I was cautious of class A's, including cautionary personal advice and examples of 'burnouts' including solo artists and bands that are still doing it, (balanced list), I understand what you say about the detrimental effects, deaths, break ups, ruined lives, I see it, big topic, the main beam of what I'd said previously is that musicians use drugs to open up creativity and I feel I gave a fair account of the otherside of your theory/argument call it what you will....... to quote Low down "I would note that of the artists merely writers I know and like who were either alcoholics or frequent drug takers, I would consider nearly all of them to have been chronic underachievers. Even Flann O'Brien who has 3 great novels to his name."
I never made a judgement call on whether it was a sucess or failure, it was for the sake of 'their art'  I mentioned Jazz musicians as an example never mentioned a specific period, as far as I know Coltrane was not on drugs when he made the album you mention, the main gist was whether the players were more creative and opened them up to other possibilites and musical experimentation, I also mentioned about certain bands having to re-record some music because drugs were detrimental to the process, a fair observation, but I also imagine the musicians that could handle it commited some performances to tape, just because they could.
Quote  MD " Drugs/Religion ...yep Rock n' Roll is my drug and religion of choice. That and a little precious thing called life." ...Fair play, thats your call, I'm pro choice and knew what I ment when I posted, opinions, opinions.
"There are no fairy tale endings with Cocaine", I didn't allude that there would be.
None of what you quoted above was aimed at you. "Essential" "The Jam" "XTC" etc ...that was me just using examples of groups not really known for their druggy behaviour making incredible music. Those examples of songs being of the neo psychedelic type where other well known artists have made similar stuff whilst being under the influence of LSD and so on.

No drug absoloutely none are essential to making music. I understand recreational drug use to get an artist in the mood but if it takes drugs to produce great music then just how great is the artist?
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

hairydot61
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by hairydot61 »

Marky Dread wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 5:07pm
hairydot61 wrote:
02 Jul 2018, 4:41pm
Ah Post!, ...bill, ...bill,... bill,... bill happy birthday bill.
You'll just have to excuse me for a moment while I inject coffee into my eye and write a facimile of Naked Lunch including a line of cappachino of course.
Its always good to get a reaction to opinions and comments, the subject matter can divide opinion, thing is whenever you put pen to paper, finger to keyboard you leave yourself open, every action causes a reaction, fair enough, I'll state now, I know we're not going to agree on this but here goes, the good thing about being so open and posting stuff is it can be looked at again and evaluated, personally I feel that the reaction to the post I put up felt a bit knee jerk reaction, I don't feel like I was quoted out of context but I do feel my words and feel were misconstrude, ..I never mentioned the word 'Essential' (to take drugs) in the piece, didn't even allude to it.
The main message in the piece was pretty much pro choice, never said musicians who never take drugs ain't worth the media they release it on, you used the word 'denegrate' other musicians work, ...again I didn't even allude to it, I answered a generalisation, pretty much a carpet bombing theory from you, that to quote " anyone who says drugs helps the creative process is a wanker", I addressed that in the piece, I also never mentioned The Jam or XTC, never mentioned artists who are artistically bereft of ideas hiding behind drugs, I used an example of Bernard Sumners use of prosac to aid lyrics, an 'example' to aid the creative process, I also used ken Kesey as an example, he wrote One flew over the Cuckoos nest prior to using acid (I believe), did I make a judgement call?, I merely stated that after the acid experience he felt like he had nothing to prove, it possibly took away any Alpha male 'competitiveness', and he couldn't be bothered to better it, I'm sure I saw that on video or whatever of him talking about the experience, I also spoke from my own experience on the whys and wherefores of why I was cautious of class A's, including cautionary personal advice and examples of 'burnouts' including solo artists and bands that are still doing it, (balanced list), I understand what you say about the detrimental effects, deaths, break ups, ruined lives, I see it, big topic, the main beam of what I'd said previously is that musicians use drugs to open up creativity and I feel I gave a fair account of the otherside of your theory/argument call it what you will....... to quote Low down "I would note that of the artists merely writers I know and like who were either alcoholics or frequent drug takers, I would consider nearly all of them to have been chronic underachievers. Even Flann O'Brien who has 3 great novels to his name."
I never made a judgement call on whether it was a sucess or failure, it was for the sake of 'their art'  I mentioned Jazz musicians as an example never mentioned a specific period, as far as I know Coltrane was not on drugs when he made the album you mention, the main gist was whether the players were more creative and opened them up to other possibilites and musical experimentation, I also mentioned about certain bands having to re-record some music because drugs were detrimental to the process, a fair observation, but I also imagine the musicians that could handle it commited some performances to tape, just because they could.
Quote  MD " Drugs/Religion ...yep Rock n' Roll is my drug and religion of choice. That and a little precious thing called life." ...Fair play, thats your call, I'm pro choice and knew what I ment when I posted, opinions, opinions.
"There are no fairy tale endings with Cocaine", I didn't allude that there would be.
None of what you quoted above was aimed at you. "Essential" "The Jam" "XTC" etc ...that was me just using examples of groups not really known for their druggy behaviour making incredible music. Those examples of songs being of the neo psychedelic type where other well known artists have made similar stuff whilst being under the influence of LSD and so on.

No drug absoloutely none are essential to making music. I understand recreational drug use to get an artist in the mood but if it takes drugs to produce great music then just how great is the artist?
Good question, have to have a think about that one, holistic?
. "Bikini Reds a state of mind,
I'm in a state and She don't mind"
  • Comforting the Disturbed and
    Disturbing the Comfortable

>>>>The Caped Curator<<<<

muppet hi fi
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by muppet hi fi »

Coltrane was clean by the time he recorded 'A Love Supreme' in '64.
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

I was chatting with Mick about something similar the other day -- not about his drug use or his band's -- but how most every music artist I (we) love was involved with drugs of various sorts, and most them involved with Class A's. Some of them made good music after getting clean. That might also be an age thing. Of course, most people who have been involved with drugs have never made any good music.

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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by gkbill »

Hello,

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

I'm curious as to how many musicians use drugs to enhance the creative process versus how many use drugs to relieve the pressure of performing/coming up with the next album/record company demands/touring, etc. I'm not a Pink Floyd fan (they're a bunch of whiners) but "Comfortably Numb" is an appropriate phrase for a lot of creative peoples' actions.

Finally, if you didn't catch the Belgium-Japan game, make the effort to catch a replay - it's worth it.

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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by hairydot61 »

Morning, this is interesting as its a big subject, recreational use in the UK is bigger than you'd probably realise, out of choice I don't know the people I used to know, but it surprised me to learn just how much of a subculture there was.
Agreed using drugs is mainly a phase because when your young your curiosity gets the better of you, you go through it, hopefully come out clued up and with experience that can be passed on, I believe a lot of ex users go on to work with youngsters that get over their head.
Regarding what we listen to that has come out of drug use for recreational purposes, if The Beatles didn't knock about with Bob Dylan and he allegedly introduced them to weed would you have got Rubber Soul, the next stop to that would be Revolver but I think I read that they were spiked while visting a friend and were not happy about it,
Next stop being Sgt. Pepper which then supposedly inspired Brian Wilson to be more exprimental, I think the pressure took its toll on him though.
I don't think that it makes the artist any less greater or less listenable if they did use substance to create a piece, you take inspiration from anywhere, that is essentially 'art' how you project that image os pretty much down to you if you have Complete Control or you have remote Control we still didn't want it on the label :mrgreen:
I saw the second half of the game Bill and it was brilliant, I sort of had an interest because heart on my sleeve been a Chelsea supporter since 70' when they beat Leeds after a replay at old Trafford, I watched it on a lil black & white portable at 9yrs old, gotta start somewhere (insert abuse here) never ever changed my allegience, I like Conte ;)
Japan were an inspiration
. "Bikini Reds a state of mind,
I'm in a state and She don't mind"
  • Comforting the Disturbed and
    Disturbing the Comfortable

>>>>The Caped Curator<<<<

Marky Dread
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Marky Dread »

hairydot61 wrote:
03 Jul 2018, 5:37am
Morning, this is interesting as its a big subject, recreational use in the UK is bigger than you'd probably realise, out of choice I don't know the people I used to know, but it surprised me to learn just how much of a subculture there was.
Agreed using drugs is mainly a phase because when your young your curiosity gets the better of you, you go through it, hopefully come out clued up and with experience that can be passed on, I believe a lot of ex users go on to work with youngsters that get over their head.
Regarding what we listen to that has come out of drug use for recreational purposes, if The Beatles didn't knock about with Bob Dylan and he allegedly introduced them to weed would you have got Rubber Soul, the next stop to that would be Revolver but I think I read that they were spiked while visting a friend and were not happy about it,
Next stop being Sgt. Pepper which then supposedly inspired Brian Wilson to be more exprimental, I think the pressure took its toll on him though.
I don't think that it makes the artist any less greater or less listenable if they did use substance to create a piece, you take inspiration from anywhere, that is essentially 'art' how you project that image os pretty much down to you if you have Complete Control or you have remote Control we still didn't want it on the label :mrgreen:
I saw the second half of the game Bill and it was brilliant, I sort of had an interest because heart on my sleeve been a Chelsea supporter since 70' when they beat Leeds after a replay at old Trafford, I watched it on a lil black & white portable at 9yrs old, gotta start somewhere (insert abuse here) never ever changed my allegience, I like Conte ;)
Japan were an inspiration
Yes you would have got Rubber Soul and it would sound like Rubber Soul.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Marky Dread
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Marky Dread »

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Jul 2018, 8:05am
hairydot61 wrote:
03 Jul 2018, 5:37am
Morning, this is interesting as its a big subject, recreational use in the UK is bigger than you'd probably realise, out of choice I don't know the people I used to know, but it surprised me to learn just how much of a subculture there was.
Agreed using drugs is mainly a phase because when your young your curiosity gets the better of you, you go through it, hopefully come out clued up and with experience that can be passed on, I believe a lot of ex users go on to work with youngsters that get over their head.
Regarding what we listen to that has come out of drug use for recreational purposes, if The Beatles didn't knock about with Bob Dylan and he allegedly introduced them to weed would you have got Rubber Soul, the next stop to that would be Revolver but I think I read that they were spiked while visting a friend and were not happy about it,
Next stop being Sgt. Pepper which then supposedly inspired Brian Wilson to be more exprimental, I think the pressure took its toll on him though.
I don't think that it makes the artist any less greater or less listenable if they did use substance to create a piece, you take inspiration from anywhere, that is essentially 'art' how you project that image os pretty much down to you if you have Complete Control or you have remote Control we still didn't want it on the label :mrgreen:
I saw the second half of the game Bill and it was brilliant, I sort of had an interest because heart on my sleeve been a Chelsea supporter since 70' when they beat Leeds after a replay at old Trafford, I watched it on a lil black & white portable at 9yrs old, gotta start somewhere (insert abuse here) never ever changed my allegience, I like Conte ;)
Japan were an inspiration
Yes you would have got Rubber Soul and it would sound like Rubber Soul.
Unless you purposely take a drug to get high in order to make music (Jason Pierce) then you do what you do as best you can do it.
Image

Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty


We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.

"Without the common people you're nothing"

Nos Sumus Una Familia

Hammy
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Hammy »

Fair enough guys and I'm glad i've got you all talking on the point but I was hoping to get some more insights into what actually went down on the night/day of Topper's sacking; who said did what, etc....

hairydot61
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by hairydot61 »

Hammy wrote:
04 Jul 2018, 12:58pm
Fair enough guys and I'm glad i've got you all talking on the point but I was hoping to get some more insights into what actually went down on the night/day of Topper's sacking; who said did what, etc....
True enough, it did go a bit off beam and was interesting, I don't know anything about what you are looking for but if anyone could recommend a book that they believe to be a good, true source and unbiasd account of the band and what happened historically I'd be interested, thanks also to teddyB not logged in for the info regarding better results when playing straight.
. "Bikini Reds a state of mind,
I'm in a state and She don't mind"
  • Comforting the Disturbed and
    Disturbing the Comfortable

>>>>The Caped Curator<<<<

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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In »

The Clash recorded Long Time Jerk on MDMA.

hairydot61
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by hairydot61 »

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 2:56am
The Clash recorded Long Time Jerk on MDMA.
;) oh , I like that track, it reminds me a little of George Baker, Little green bag, similar swing if you like, Junco partner another fav too, rootsy.
I couldn't personally tell from the recording that mdna was used, imagine they had a good time at the sesh though, cheers
. "Bikini Reds a state of mind,
I'm in a state and She don't mind"
  • Comforting the Disturbed and
    Disturbing the Comfortable

>>>>The Caped Curator<<<<

Heston
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Re: Judging by his guitar playing during this period – he was high as a kite

Post by Heston »

hairydot61 wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 9:25am
TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
05 Jul 2018, 2:56am
The Clash recorded Long Time Jerk on MDMA.
;) oh , I like that track, it reminds me a little of George Baker, Little green bag, similar swing if you like, Junco partner another fav too, rootsy.
I couldn't personally tell from the recording that mdna was used, imagine they had a good time at the sesh though, cheers
What a great song that is.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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