(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

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Kory
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Kory »

Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 5:13pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:56pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:29pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 3:40pm
Joe is critical of Dillinger, Leroy Smart, Ken Boothe and Delroy Wilson on this track right?
Yes, dont think there is any doubt that he is being critical. Joe went to the gig with a preconceived notion of what he would hear and seemed to feel personally let down when it failed to match up. Not sure how much Jamaican music Joe knew at that time, maybe he knew Jimmy Cliff and believed all Jamaican music would have that hard, socially conscious edge when, as Don Letts has testified, it was as much if not more about escapism. It's still a truly great song and lyric nonetheless.
I really like those artists, except for Dillinger who I don't know that well. Joe needs to lighten up.
I’d say he probably did too but this was 77 and Joe had to be a punk rock stalinist. He lightened up enough to sing Lovers Rock anyway...I really like it but could easily be a Ken Boothe cover.
I'd listen to that.
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Silent Majority »

Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 5:13pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:56pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:29pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 3:40pm
Joe is critical of Dillinger, Leroy Smart, Ken Boothe and Delroy Wilson on this track right?
Yes, dont think there is any doubt that he is being critical. Joe went to the gig with a preconceived notion of what he would hear and seemed to feel personally let down when it failed to match up. Not sure how much Jamaican music Joe knew at that time, maybe he knew Jimmy Cliff and believed all Jamaican music would have that hard, socially conscious edge when, as Don Letts has testified, it was as much if not more about escapism. It's still a truly great song and lyric nonetheless.
I really like those artists, except for Dillinger who I don't know that well. Joe needs to lighten up.
I’d say he probably did too but this was 77 and Joe had to be a punk rock stalinist. He lightened up enough to sing Lovers Rock anyway...I really like it but could easily be a Ken Boothe cover.
I think the later lines "Cause it won't get you anywhere / Fooling with the guns / The British Army is waiting out there / An' it weighs fifteen hundred tons" are the thoughtful endpoint of Strummer's disappointment with Jamaican music's lack of revolutionary fervour. Sure, it'd be nice if these brilliant artists had more to say than the kind of stuff the Four Tops had done fifteen years before, but what's the point in it all? You're not going to take down the British Army. Even the British punk scene (which does have something to say) instead of being committed to actual change, their rebellious message is compromised by coming from the heart of an unequal system. Your rebellion will be co-opted to make money for the people at the top.

Remember young Strummer was confined to a boarding school in 1968, the most revolutionary year after probably 1917 of the past century. He heard Street Fighting Man by the Rolling Stones and thought that was powering and being powered by a global movement towards a better world. Joe couldn't wait to get out and be a part of it. It was instead Mick Jagger with his impeccable sense of how to pour what was fashionable into his lyrics. Pop music, a wounded Joe realises in this song, isn't the place to look for societal change, so, filled with drugs, you can go out looking for fun as an escape. His initial criticism of Ken Boothe etc is examined and he finds himself as wanting as they are, accepting their mutual position and understanding the entire situation more.
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by WestwayKid »

Silent Majority wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 2:42am
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 5:13pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:56pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:29pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 3:40pm
Joe is critical of Dillinger, Leroy Smart, Ken Boothe and Delroy Wilson on this track right?
Yes, dont think there is any doubt that he is being critical. Joe went to the gig with a preconceived notion of what he would hear and seemed to feel personally let down when it failed to match up. Not sure how much Jamaican music Joe knew at that time, maybe he knew Jimmy Cliff and believed all Jamaican music would have that hard, socially conscious edge when, as Don Letts has testified, it was as much if not more about escapism. It's still a truly great song and lyric nonetheless.
I really like those artists, except for Dillinger who I don't know that well. Joe needs to lighten up.
I’d say he probably did too but this was 77 and Joe had to be a punk rock stalinist. He lightened up enough to sing Lovers Rock anyway...I really like it but could easily be a Ken Boothe cover.
I think the later lines "Cause it won't get you anywhere / Fooling with the guns / The British Army is waiting out there / An' it weighs fifteen hundred tons" are the thoughtful endpoint of Strummer's disappointment with Jamaican music's lack of revolutionary fervour. Sure, it'd be nice if these brilliant artists had more to say than the kind of stuff the Four Tops had done fifteen years before, but what's the point in it all? You're not going to take down the British Army. Even the British punk scene (which does have something to say) instead of being committed to actual change, their rebellious message is compromised by coming from the heart of an unequal system. Your rebellion will be co-opted to make money for the people at the top.

Remember young Strummer was confined to a boarding school in 1968, the most revolutionary year after probably 1917 of the past century. He heard Street Fighting Man by the Rolling Stones and thought that was powering and being powered by a global movement towards a better world. Joe couldn't wait to get out and be a part of it. It was instead Mick Jagger with his impeccable sense of how to pour what was fashionable into his lyrics. Pop music, a wounded Joe realises in this song, isn't the place to look for societal change, so, filled with drugs, you can go out looking for fun as an escape. His initial criticism of Ken Boothe etc is examined and he finds himself as wanting as they are, accepting their mutual position and understanding the entire situation more.
I like this take on the song. It's kind of in line with how I've always heard it. I've always felt Joe did a great job of being very honest about the experience. He was young and idealistic and the actual experience didn't match what he expected and I've always really appreciated the honesty of what he channeled into the lyric. There is a sense of resignation, but not defeat - rather a thoughtfulness about why.
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Silent Majority »

I would love a poster advertising Dillinger, Leroy Smart and Ken Boothe appearing at the Hammersmith Palais. That would go right up on the living room wall.
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 8:17am
I would love a poster advertising Dillinger, Leroy Smart and Ken Boothe appearing at the Hammersmith Palais. That would go right up on the living room wall.
Make it happen, Kory!
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 8:30am
Silent Majority wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 8:17am
I would love a poster advertising Dillinger, Leroy Smart and Ken Boothe appearing at the Hammersmith Palais. That would go right up on the living room wall.
Make it happen, Kory!
I would buy this!
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Marky's shown some pleasing design sense in the sleeves for his many many (many!) discs. Kory, Marky, submit your competing designs and be judged by us!
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by 101Walterton »

Silent Majority wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 8:17am
I would love a poster advertising Dillinger, Leroy Smart and Ken Boothe appearing at the Hammersmith Palais. That would go right up on the living room wall.
Agreed.

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Heston »

Image
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Heston »

Four quid in and the whole world's yours...

Image
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by matedog »

Heston wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 8:55am
Silent Majority wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 6:37am
Heston wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 5:50am
Great great song but I wish they hadn't produced it themselves. That's why I usually play the FHTE version, even though Terry is on it.
Guy Stevens the ideal producer?
Pearlman or Bill Price would have done. It just sounds a bit brittle and harsh to me, with distinct lack of nice, rounded bass. Just a mystery why they were producing themselves after one year in the business.
Hoyston in this sense. It took me years to “get” this song largely because it sounds pretty shitty. Love love love most live versions and I’ve grown to love the studio version, but it could sound a lot better than it does.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by sonnyburnit »

This mini poster came with the RSD 2017 7inch
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1AFBDD1D-A58B-4178-9E66-42A4DCD07EB9.jpeg
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Red Angel »

If I were to introduce The Clash to someone, this is one of the first songs that I make listen :!:
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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Heston »

matedog wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 9:08pm
Heston wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 8:55am
Silent Majority wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 6:37am
Heston wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 5:50am
Great great song but I wish they hadn't produced it themselves. That's why I usually play the FHTE version, even though Terry is on it.
Guy Stevens the ideal producer?
Pearlman or Bill Price would have done. It just sounds a bit brittle and harsh to me, with distinct lack of nice, rounded bass. Just a mystery why they were producing themselves after one year in the business.
Hoyston in this sense. It took me years to “get” this song largely because it sounds pretty shitty. Love love love most live versions and I’ve grown to love the studio version, but it could sound a lot better than it does.
A voice of sanity and reason at last.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board

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Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Low Down Low »

As an aside one of the many facets of WMIHP's greatness is the use of harmonica/mouth organ which, though open to correction on this point, I understand to be a Joe contribution. Its an instrument I adore and really wish they'd used a lot more, there's a bit in Groovy Times which is about all that comes to mind off the top of my head.

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