(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 27776
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Heston » 20 Jun 2018, 7:59am

Low Down Low wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 7:57am
As an aside one of the many facets of WMIHP's greatness is the use of harmonica/mouth organ which, though open to correction on this point, I understand to be a Joe contribution. Its an instrument I adore and really wish they'd used a lot more, there's a bit in Groovy Times which is about all that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Yeah, that's Mick on both counts I think, definitely the latter.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1462
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Low Down Low » 20 Jun 2018, 8:08am

Heston wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 7:59am
Low Down Low wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 7:57am
As an aside one of the many facets of WMIHP's greatness is the use of harmonica/mouth organ which, though open to correction on this point, I understand to be a Joe contribution. Its an instrument I adore and really wish they'd used a lot more, there's a bit in Groovy Times which is about all that comes to mind off the top of my head.
Yeah, that's Mick on both counts I think, definitely the latter.
Ah ok cheers. Dont know why I just assumed it'd be a Joe thing. And on further reflection its there in Garageland and at the end of TIV too, so more prevalent than I inititally thought. Also have a memory of Paul doing a harmonica intro to GOB in the Clash 11 period which worked really well.

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 13603
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind
Contact:

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Silent Majority » 20 Jun 2018, 11:40am

Groovy Times is Mick, credited as Bob Jones. A Dylan joke.
Ain't no man in this land
Who gets up and works for fifty grand


www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Chuck Mangione
User avatar
Spitting Image
Posts: 6626
Joined: 17 Jun 2009, 10:45pm
Location: Up your boulevard.
Contact:

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Chuck Mangione » 20 Jun 2018, 1:25pm

Plus "Ghetto Defendant".

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1462
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Low Down Low » 20 Jun 2018, 2:17pm

Silent Majority wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 11:40am
Groovy Times is Mick, credited as Bob Jones. A Dylan joke.
I would have automatically pegged Joe in my mind as the Dylan man. But if anything, Mick was probably just as big a fan.

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 8782
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Kory » 20 Jun 2018, 5:45pm

Silent Majority wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 2:42am
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 5:13pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:56pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 4:29pm
Kory wrote:
18 Jun 2018, 3:40pm
Joe is critical of Dillinger, Leroy Smart, Ken Boothe and Delroy Wilson on this track right?
Yes, dont think there is any doubt that he is being critical. Joe went to the gig with a preconceived notion of what he would hear and seemed to feel personally let down when it failed to match up. Not sure how much Jamaican music Joe knew at that time, maybe he knew Jimmy Cliff and believed all Jamaican music would have that hard, socially conscious edge when, as Don Letts has testified, it was as much if not more about escapism. It's still a truly great song and lyric nonetheless.
I really like those artists, except for Dillinger who I don't know that well. Joe needs to lighten up.
I’d say he probably did too but this was 77 and Joe had to be a punk rock stalinist. He lightened up enough to sing Lovers Rock anyway...I really like it but could easily be a Ken Boothe cover.
I think the later lines "Cause it won't get you anywhere / Fooling with the guns / The British Army is waiting out there / An' it weighs fifteen hundred tons" are the thoughtful endpoint of Strummer's disappointment with Jamaican music's lack of revolutionary fervour. Sure, it'd be nice if these brilliant artists had more to say than the kind of stuff the Four Tops had done fifteen years before, but what's the point in it all? You're not going to take down the British Army. Even the British punk scene (which does have something to say) instead of being committed to actual change, their rebellious message is compromised by coming from the heart of an unequal system. Your rebellion will be co-opted to make money for the people at the top.

Remember young Strummer was confined to a boarding school in 1968, the most revolutionary year after probably 1917 of the past century. He heard Street Fighting Man by the Rolling Stones and thought that was powering and being powered by a global movement towards a better world. Joe couldn't wait to get out and be a part of it. It was instead Mick Jagger with his impeccable sense of how to pour what was fashionable into his lyrics. Pop music, a wounded Joe realises in this song, isn't the place to look for societal change, so, filled with drugs, you can go out looking for fun as an escape. His initial criticism of Ken Boothe etc is examined and he finds himself as wanting as they are, accepting their mutual position and understanding the entire situation more.
Great post.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 8782
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Kory » 20 Jun 2018, 5:45pm

sonnyburnit wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:30pm
This mini poster came with the RSD 2017 7inch
Rad, I don't have to do anything now!
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

Kory
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 8782
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 1:42pm
Location: In the Discosphere

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Kory » 20 Jun 2018, 5:47pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 1:25pm
Plus "Ghetto Defendant".
That's a melodica, isn't it?

edit: no, it definitely isn't.
Last edited by Kory on 22 Jun 2018, 3:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 20523
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by matedog » 22 Jun 2018, 10:40am

Chuck Mangione wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 1:25pm
Plus "Ghetto Defendant".
I thought that was Paul. Didn’t he play shittily on those live versions?

I’m drawing a blank but didn’t Lee Lewis play some real harmonica on S!?
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 27776
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Heston » 22 Jun 2018, 10:46am

matedog wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 10:40am
Chuck Mangione wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 1:25pm
Plus "Ghetto Defendant".
I thought that was Paul. Didn’t he play shittily on those live versions?

I’m drawing a blank but didn’t Lee Lewis play some real harmonica on S!?
Lew Lewis on Version City. He plays that brilliant solo which I would imagine would have been beyond Mick or Paul.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1462
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Low Down Low » 22 Jun 2018, 11:05am

Heston wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 10:46am
matedog wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 10:40am
Chuck Mangione wrote:
20 Jun 2018, 1:25pm
Plus "Ghetto Defendant".
I thought that was Paul. Didn’t he play shittily on those live versions?

I’m drawing a blank but didn’t Lee Lewis play some real harmonica on S!?
Lew Lewis on Version City. He plays that brilliant solo which I would imagine would have been beyond Mick or Paul.
Always loved Version City, there's also some great harmonica work on Look Here. Also never realised there was background harmonica on Corner Soul, amazing how many times you can listen to a song and still hear things you hadn't noticed before. He's also credited for Junco Partner and a couple of others but try as I might, I still cant detect any harmonica in JP.

Inder
User avatar
corecore vanguard
Posts: 8829
Joined: 14 Jun 2008, 3:28pm

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Inder » 22 Jun 2018, 11:16am

Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:05am
He's also credited for Junco Partner and a couple of others but try as I might, I still cant detect any harmonica in JP.
You can hear it more clearly behind the "fourteen to ninety-nine" bit, I think.

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1462
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais turns 40

Post by Low Down Low » 22 Jun 2018, 1:00pm

Inder wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:16am
Low Down Low wrote:
22 Jun 2018, 11:05am
He's also credited for Junco Partner and a couple of others but try as I might, I still cant detect any harmonica in JP.
You can hear it more clearly behind the "fourteen to ninety-nine" bit, I think.
Have no doubt its there but these cloth ears cant seem to pick it out! Just have to wait for the stems...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 7 guests