The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
- WestwayKid
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The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
My first real exposure to the band was a cassette version of their first album on Epic. It featured, of course, the US version. Hearing the UK version years later was somewhat jarring.
All these years later, I'm still not sure which I prefer. I think that the US version was stronger because they had the chance to drop some of the weaker tracks and cherry pick a couple of great singles.
That said, does it lack cohesion? The band had made huge strides by the time they recorded White Man and Complete Control. Is the original UK a better document because it captures that singular moment in time?
I actually just threw together a playlist on my iPod that has the US track order. Played it in the car as I was out running errands today and it sounded great. I didn't really notice a huge difference in sound - other than the fact that Topper is a more dynamic drummer than Terry.
Finally, I find it interesting that even in the late 70's record companies would still issue country specific albums at their whim.
All these years later, I'm still not sure which I prefer. I think that the US version was stronger because they had the chance to drop some of the weaker tracks and cherry pick a couple of great singles.
That said, does it lack cohesion? The band had made huge strides by the time they recorded White Man and Complete Control. Is the original UK a better document because it captures that singular moment in time?
I actually just threw together a playlist on my iPod that has the US track order. Played it in the car as I was out running errands today and it sounded great. I didn't really notice a huge difference in sound - other than the fact that Topper is a more dynamic drummer than Terry.
Finally, I find it interesting that even in the late 70's record companies would still issue country specific albums at their whim.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
It’s so different that it’s not really an apples to apples comparison. UK has the cohesive songwriting and production whereas US is basically a great comp of their 77-79 material.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
- Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
This.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
We have discussed this subject a lot over the years. I Fought the Law / I'm So Bored with the U.S.A. very different sounding. Dropping weaker tracks like White Riot (Beaconsfield) for the single mix? the irony being the single mix is the version that belongs with the first album. The simple answer is you can not rewrite history The Clash did not write some of those songs in '77 and they were not on their first album as a comp it's great but then if you were picking a comp of that time you might want 1977 or Capital Radio etc.WestwayKid wrote: ↑19 Nov 2017, 1:44pmMy first real exposure to the band was a cassette version of their first album on Epic. It featured, of course, the US version. Hearing the UK version years later was somewhat jarring.
All these years later, I'm still not sure which I prefer. I think that the US version was stronger because they had the chance to drop some of the weaker tracks and cherry pick a couple of great singles.
That said, does it lack cohesion? The band had made huge strides by the time they recorded White Man and Complete Control. Is the original UK a better document because it captures that singular moment in time?
I actually just threw together a playlist on my iPod that has the US track order. Played it in the car as I was out running errands today and it sounded great. I didn't really notice a huge difference in sound - other than the fact that Topper is a more dynamic drummer than Terry.
Finally, I find it interesting that even in the late 70's record companies would still issue country specific albums at their whim.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
You may find this interesting.
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Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
The UK version is definitely a more cohesive listen. That said, I don't necessarily need my punk to be cohesive. Just like a punk's clothes are patched together, I enjoy the patched together feel of the US version. A lot of the best punk albums are comps, IMO.
There's also a connection there with reggae music, which also works well in compilation format (ie, Tighten Up).
There's also a connection there with reggae music, which also works well in compilation format (ie, Tighten Up).
- Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Yeah but no disrespect as to which you prefer but this thread is about "versus" and you can't really compare them as one is the first album and the other simply isn't. They are both fantastic and I agree with you sometimes compilations are a better listen. But in 1977 The Clash could not have put "I Fought the Law" on their first album unless they had a time machine. The arguments often seem to be US versus UK when it should be fisrt album versus first comp. I'm sure you could make a comp of most bands first album and add singles A's/B's and it would be fantastic providing it's the same group. Example where it doesn't work you can't put "Silly Thing" on Never Mind the Bollocks.msza2 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 12:01pmThe UK version is definitely a more cohesive listen. That said, I don't necessarily need my punk to be cohesive. Just like a punk's clothes are patched together, I enjoy the patched together feel of the US version. A lot of the best punk albums are comps, IMO.
There's also a connection there with reggae music, which also works well in compilation format (ie, Tighten Up).
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
- Heston
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Sorry Marky, but I would have loved Silly Thing on the first album with the same production. Steve or Johnny singing, I wouldn't be fussed.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Does fussed mean sane over there?
"Grab some wood, bub.'" - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft
Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Hello,Marky Dread wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 12:20pmYeah but no disrespect as to which you prefer but this thread is about "versus" and you can't really compare them as one is the first album and the other simply isn't. They are both fantastic and I agree with you sometimes compilations are a better listen. But in 1977 The Clash could not have put "I Fought the Law" on their first album unless they had a time machine. The arguments often seem to be US versus UK when it should be fisrt album versus first comp. I'm sure you could make a comp of most bands first album and add singles A's/B's and it would be fantastic providing it's the same group. Example where it doesn't work you can't put "Silly Thing" on Never Mind the Bollocks.msza2 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 12:01pmThe UK version is definitely a more cohesive listen. That said, I don't necessarily need my punk to be cohesive. Just like a punk's clothes are patched together, I enjoy the patched together feel of the US version. A lot of the best punk albums are comps, IMO.
There's also a connection there with reggae music, which also works well in compilation format (ie, Tighten Up).
I'm not one to bandy about semantics but the problem is the word "versus". if you change the wording (and thinking) to "in addition to...", it becomes much less of an either-or discussion. Two different records.
Secondly, I wouldn't want Silly Thing on Never Mind the Bollocks. It's a throw-away, fun single. It lacks the gravitas to be on the album.
As I proofread my post, it sounds pretentious. Sorry about that, Chief (who remembers that line?).
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Exactly my point and I don't want I Fought the Law on the band's debut. It makes no sense for a punk group to be covering a 1950's single at this point in time.gkbill wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 12:49amHello,Marky Dread wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 12:20pmYeah but no disrespect as to which you prefer but this thread is about "versus" and you can't really compare them as one is the first album and the other simply isn't. They are both fantastic and I agree with you sometimes compilations are a better listen. But in 1977 The Clash could not have put "I Fought the Law" on their first album unless they had a time machine. The arguments often seem to be US versus UK when it should be fisrt album versus first comp. I'm sure you could make a comp of most bands first album and add singles A's/B's and it would be fantastic providing it's the same group. Example where it doesn't work you can't put "Silly Thing" on Never Mind the Bollocks.msza2 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 12:01pmThe UK version is definitely a more cohesive listen. That said, I don't necessarily need my punk to be cohesive. Just like a punk's clothes are patched together, I enjoy the patched together feel of the US version. A lot of the best punk albums are comps, IMO.
There's also a connection there with reggae music, which also works well in compilation format (ie, Tighten Up).
I'm not one to bandy about semantics but the problem is the word "versus". if you change the wording (and thinking) to "in addition to...", it becomes much less of an either-or discussion. Two different records.
Secondly, I wouldn't want Silly Thing on Never Mind the Bollocks. It's a throw-away, fun single. It lacks the gravitas to be on the album.
As I proofread my post, it sounds pretentious. Sorry about that, Chief (who remembers that line?).
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Christgau’s argument was that they should have released the first album as was and then a comp of the singles. Not sure how that would have worked re I Fought the Law unless he meant to release the comp after Rope, which may have made sense in the States, released in ‘79 concurrent with the U.K. Cost of Living EP in lieu of the US version of The Clash.
Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
You certainly can't argue with Bruce Harris, as he got the whole thing "rolling right" in the USA. Just a couple of questions of mine rising up from the street: Who were Masterswitch? Whatever happened to them? I bet Bruce didn't sit on their first album and wait until it sold into six figures on import and then hastily bung together a compilation using some of their other singles and b-sides. (Presuming they actually had more singles, etc)
- WestwayKid
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
Maybe I could have stated my original question better. I’m more curious to know/discuss the different listening experience each version offers. This was the first album I owned by the band - purchased on cassette in probably 1988-89. For quite awhile I thought this was the only version of the first album and finally hearing the original version years later was jarring. I recognize it as a powerful, cohesive work, but my experience is forever shaped by first listening to that Epic cassette. I still love that track listing, maybe because I’m so used to it.
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- Marky Dread
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Re: The Clash: UK versus US version - thoughts?
I can understand anyone who owned the US version first feeling that's the better album and finding the original a jarring listening experience. It must feel odd expecting to hear one of the added single tracks next and getting Deny instead or whatever.WestwayKid wrote: ↑25 Nov 2017, 10:59amMaybe I could have stated my original question better. I’m more curious to know/discuss the different listening experience each version offers. This was the first album I owned by the band - purchased on cassette in probably 1988-89. For quite awhile I thought this was the only version of the first album and finally hearing the original version years later was jarring. I recognize it as a powerful, cohesive work, but my experience is forever shaped by first listening to that Epic cassette. I still love that track listing, maybe because I’m so used to it.
However what the listener of that US version completely loses out on is the albums history and the importance of what the album meant to someone hearing it in '77 against a backdrop of political and social unrest and mediocre pop music. The Police & Thieves cover being contemporary fitted brilliantly with White Riot and the previous summer's unrest. You can not get that from hearing I Fought the Law no matter how great a cover it is or how apt the lyrics may appear. The punk version of The Clash of '76 - '77 would simply not entertain covering a 50's record on their year zero debut. It's also very unfair to compare the debut with a compilation. I think they should have released all that material under a different title because The Clash US is simply not The Clash UK. The debut was available in the US as an import and the US version is just a CBS cash in.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
"Without the common people you're nothing"
Nos Sumus Una Familia