Cut The Crap

[Heston]

The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.

Mediocre is a matter of opinion. To me they were back to proper song structures after the meandering nature of S! and CR and its attendant b-sides. Bad execution but I'm convinced something serviceable is there.

[Dr. Medulla]

The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.

I think some people enjoy discussing it because they like the songs and find the story behind the album fascinating.

It can't always be Swans 'n' Sox, buddy!

Jesus H, why is everyone so sensitive with criticism today? Fine, CtC could have been great, too.

And as a preventive, I hereby apologize to anyone and everyone who has ever taken offence at anything I've ever said.

[Inder]

Cut the Crap continues to tear the online community apart.

[Flex]

And as a preventive, I hereby apologize to anyone and everyone who has ever taken offence at anything I've ever said.

I refuse to accept your apology for making offensive and disparaging remarks about late 90s sensation, Papa Roach.

[JohnS]

Jesus H, why is everyone so sensitive with criticism today? Fine, CtC could have been great, too.
And as a preventive, I hereby apologize to anyone and everyone who has ever taken offence at anything I've ever said.

Get out of here with your gracious apologies and noble broad-mindedness. This is a Clash forum, and a thread about CtC - if there aren't sparks flying in here I'm going to take my internet machine back to the shop for a refund.
My 2p-worth is: I've never owned a copy, and never actually listened to every (studio) track in its entirety. The demos and live versions are infinitely more interesting. And even then it's not 'The Clash' - it's not even much of a 'Sort Of Clash'

[Wolter]

The fantasy that CtC could have been respectable, even good, is the Prester John myth of some people here. The material was mediocre at best and made comical by Bernie's technology boner. Just let it go.

Mediocre is a matter of opinion. To me they were back to proper song structures after the meandering nature of S! and CR and its attendant b-sides. Bad execution but I'm convinced something serviceable is there.

I think it would’ve been a middling, but listenable album, instead of a colossal misstep. You cannot convince me that anything on it is nearly as bad as Boogie With Your Children. I’m not saying it would ever be a masterpiece, but none of the songs (other than Play To Win) are irredeemable in their bones.

[Low Down Low]

Boogie > the fingerbop song (imo).

[Wolter]

Boogie > the fingerbop song (imo).

Scrub the lyrics (fingerpoppin’s lyrics are irredeemable) and Boogie is far more atrocious. I mean, this is basicallly comparing turds.

[Low Down Low]

Boogie > the fingerbop song (imo).

Scrub the lyrics (fingerpoppin’s lyrics are irredeemable) and Boogie is far more atrocious. I mean, this is basicallly comparing turds.

I think that much we can definitely all agree on.

[Mimi]

I still haven't listened to it in its entirety, but what I've heard makes me never want to so...

I believe I listened to one of Kaleb's podcasts when he was doing a listen and all I can remember is him saying: "What is this? What is this shit?" I died. Can't remember which song made him say that, but it was a moment.

[Wolter]

I certainly listen to it more than is healthy.

[Low Down Low]

It's just occurred to me that I listen to CtC more than I listen to s/t. I offer no defense for this absurd position.

[appleseed1]

When are we gonna realise the major problem with CtC is the mix and production? It is really not a bad set of songs. Interesting chord changes, tight arrangements, Joe sounding great, and some very serviceable lyrics. The tunes are there. Are you telling me Are You Red..y isn't structurally and melodically better than This Is Radio Clash for example? Play To Win beats Mensforth Hill and Death Is a Star into the ground as an abstract piece.

We can never judge CtC against the Clash's other material until we hear it in a semi-professional mix. I doubt even London Calling would have sounded great with a shit drum machine and Bernie Rhodes producing.

I think you're right, Heston, though I love TiRC and doubt Are You Red ...y could be elevated above it. Nonetheless, though, the point remains.

[Low Down Low]

When are we gonna realise the major problem with CtC is the mix and production? It is really not a bad set of songs. Interesting chord changes, tight arrangements, Joe sounding great, and some very serviceable lyrics. The tunes are there. Are you telling me Are You Red..y isn't structurally and melodically better than This Is Radio Clash for example? Play To Win beats Mensforth Hill and Death Is a Star into the ground as an abstract piece.

We can never judge CtC against the Clash's other material until we hear it in a semi-professional mix. I doubt even London Calling would have sounded great with a shit drum machine and Bernie Rhodes producing.

I think you're right, Heston, though I love TiRC and doubt Are You Red ...y could be elevated above it. Nonetheless, though, the point remains.

Not so sure. I think it just tells me that structure and melody are only two of several factors that go into making a great song. I mean, could you not equally suggest Are You Redy is structurally and melodically better than London Calling?

[WestwayKid]

At the end of the day...it is what it is. We can argue all day about what CtC could have been...but we only have what it is. We're never going to get another version of it. It has been scrubbed from the official history of the band. I can "think" some of the songs might have sounded better with a full band performance and someone other than "Jose" Rhodes behind the boards - but it is all conjecture.

The loss of Mick was huge. They never replaced his musical input. Joe's heart wasn't in it for very long. Nick and Pete were not given a proper chance to contribute as musicians (sorry Vince, I'm not counting you) and when it all went to "crap" they were all too happy to let Bernie indulge himself. There is a lot of blame to go around - but oh well. It's all history, now.