Best version of Rat Patrol?

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WestwayKid
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Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by WestwayKid » 27 Oct 2017, 11:35am

What's the best version (in your opinion) circulating? Various archival releases like Sound System have given us some tracks - others are around in pretty decent quality - but a few still sound a bit dodgy - like 3rd or 4th generation cassette copies. The guy who has that Albums That Never Were blog did a version - but I think he was a bit too revisionist and used too many Combat Rock versions. Honestly, I'd be happy with something with at least a consistent sound - even if the sound was not perfect. Just jarring to go from a relatively clear track to something like Know Your Rights - which I've only heard in below average quality/sound.

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Kory » 27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm

That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Marky Dread » 03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm

Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Kory » 04 Nov 2017, 1:06am

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
It really is a great, and very appreciated, version. Such a missed opportunity for something really special. One thing that I definitely agree with CK on. The "mongrel rock," as he calls it (and "narco funk" by that other guy), had so much potential to it. I'm hoping my next project will be able to pick up the baton at least a little bit.
Inder:
Absolutely. Here's another collection of words:

Table salt (spoon hinge)
Octopus (Ukraine)
St. Petersburg (arms)
Ginger beer (cauliflower)
Pat Sajak (PSak)
Lamp post (self evident)
Florida Timeshare (ditto)
Heraclitus (EMI)
Developers (Developers Developers)
Boogie With Your Children

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Marky Dread » 04 Nov 2017, 7:56am

Kory wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 1:06am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
It really is a great, and very appreciated, version. Such a missed opportunity for something really special. One thing that I definitely agree with CK on. The "mongrel rock," as he calls it (and "narco funk" by that other guy), had so much potential to it. I'm hoping my next project will be able to pick up the baton at least a little bit.
I'm realy looking forward to hearing your work mate. Please keep me in the loop as you progress.
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by WestwayKid » 04 Nov 2017, 11:43am

Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
Much appreciated! Probably the best sounding versions of some of these tracks I've ever heard. Been spinning it a lot over the past couple of days. The more I listen - the more I keep thinking about the lost potential of this album. Mick's mixes were way better than what Glyn Johns came up with. Mick's version was almost psychedelic in its crazy mix of sounds and textures. You hear all sorts of cool details that were dropped from the remix that turned into CR. Take a track like Know Your Rights. The CR version is okay - but the Rat Patrol version is insane. It takes on a whole different direction and tone.

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Marky Dread » 04 Nov 2017, 11:51am

WestwayKid wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 11:43am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
Much appreciated! Probably the best sounding versions of some of these tracks I've ever heard. Been spinning it a lot over the past couple of days. The more I listen - the more I keep thinking about the lost potential of this album. Mick's mixes were way better than what Glyn Johns came up with. Mick's version was almost psychedelic in its crazy mix of sounds and textures. You hear all sorts of cool details that were dropped from the remix that turned into CR. Take a track like Know Your Rights. The CR version is okay - but the Rat Patrol version is insane. It takes on a whole different direction and tone.
I love Mick's version way better. I think though for the purpose of producing a hit album and being out of debt to the record company Glyn John's version served it's purpose very well. Sadly it denied us the true vision of the artist. I like both versions of course but some of those so called "raga" mixes (yeah once again thanks Bernie) are fantastic and I think there could've easily have been Mick's longer version as album tracks and then edits made for single releases.
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by yetaca » 04 Nov 2017, 3:04pm

WestwayKid wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 11:35am
What's the best version (in your opinion) circulating?
Combat Rock

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Wolter » 04 Nov 2017, 3:38pm

yetaca wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 3:04pm
WestwayKid wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 11:35am
What's the best version (in your opinion) circulating?
Combat Rock
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Marky Dread » 04 Nov 2017, 7:51pm

yetaca wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 3:04pm
WestwayKid wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 11:35am
What's the best version (in your opinion) circulating?
Combat Rock
Combat Wrong.
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Low Down Low » 06 Nov 2017, 11:57am

Marky Dread wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 11:51am
WestwayKid wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 11:43am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
Much appreciated! Probably the best sounding versions of some of these tracks I've ever heard. Been spinning it a lot over the past couple of days. The more I listen - the more I keep thinking about the lost potential of this album. Mick's mixes were way better than what Glyn Johns came up with. Mick's version was almost psychedelic in its crazy mix of sounds and textures. You hear all sorts of cool details that were dropped from the remix that turned into CR. Take a track like Know Your Rights. The CR version is okay - but the Rat Patrol version is insane. It takes on a whole different direction and tone.
I love Mick's version way better. I think though for the purpose of producing a hit album and being out of debt to the record company Glyn John's version served it's purpose very well. Sadly it denied us the true vision of the artist. I like both versions of course but some of those so called "raga" mixes (yeah once again thanks Bernie) are fantastic and I think there could've easily have been Mick's longer version as album tracks and then edits made for single releases.
Had another listen to Mick's mixes last night and would be in total agreement. I doubt any of Mick's mixes could have served as singles but as you say, they could have been further edited for that purpose. Johns should at least have got the death penalty for leaving "Have you no homes to go to" out of KYR. Mick's Inoculated City is a particular triumph, a track that on CR I was always ho-hum about became a solid favourite once I heard the MJ version.

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by WestwayKid » 06 Nov 2017, 12:10pm

Low Down Low wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 11:57am
Marky Dread wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 11:51am
WestwayKid wrote:
04 Nov 2017, 11:43am
Marky Dread wrote:
03 Nov 2017, 10:30pm
Kory wrote:
27 Oct 2017, 12:48pm
That's so weird—Marky and I were just talking about this in another thread but I can't remember which one it was. Marky, you got a memory on you?

edit: found it! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9979&start=135
I've sorted WestwayKid with a Marky special.
Much appreciated! Probably the best sounding versions of some of these tracks I've ever heard. Been spinning it a lot over the past couple of days. The more I listen - the more I keep thinking about the lost potential of this album. Mick's mixes were way better than what Glyn Johns came up with. Mick's version was almost psychedelic in its crazy mix of sounds and textures. You hear all sorts of cool details that were dropped from the remix that turned into CR. Take a track like Know Your Rights. The CR version is okay - but the Rat Patrol version is insane. It takes on a whole different direction and tone.
I love Mick's version way better. I think though for the purpose of producing a hit album and being out of debt to the record company Glyn John's version served it's purpose very well. Sadly it denied us the true vision of the artist. I like both versions of course but some of those so called "raga" mixes (yeah once again thanks Bernie) are fantastic and I think there could've easily have been Mick's longer version as album tracks and then edits made for single releases.
Had another listen to Mick's mixes last night and would be in total agreement. I doubt any of Mick's mixes could have served as singles but as you say, they could have been further edited for that purpose. Johns should at least have got the death penalty for leaving "Have you no homes to go to" out of KYR. Mick's Inoculated City is a particular triumph, a track that on CR I was always ho-hum about became a solid favourite once I heard the MJ version.
That is a great line! The whole tone of that track is lost on the CR version. Comes across as way too serious and I feel like the sarcasm and black humor of the original is lost. It still comes across - but on the original...I just feel like it is way more effective.

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Inder » 06 Nov 2017, 1:07pm

There's no way some of those Rat Patrol tracks are the final/submitted versions though, right? Like, the KYR vocal is diabolical.

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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Flex » 06 Nov 2017, 1:11pm

Inder wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 1:07pm
There's no way some of those Rat Patrol tracks are the final/submitted versions though, right? Like, the KYR vocal is diabolical.
yeah, that's the thing (and to Hoy's post that none of us responded to). I can see a universe where a final version of Rat Patrol completed on the path that it seems like it was set on surpassed what was eventually released as Combat Rock, but I think we're really just hearing (nth-gen copies, mostly) of a work-in-progress. KYR from Rat Patrol is wretched, but I refuse to believe Mick ever meant for it to be released that way. Combat Rock actually sounds like a finished product by a professional band.
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Re: Best version of Rat Patrol?

Post by Marky Dread » 06 Nov 2017, 1:32pm

Flex wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 1:11pm
Inder wrote:
06 Nov 2017, 1:07pm
There's no way some of those Rat Patrol tracks are the final/submitted versions though, right? Like, the KYR vocal is diabolical.
yeah, that's the thing (and to Hoy's post that none of us responded to). I can see a universe where a final version of Rat Patrol completed on the path that it seems like it was set on surpassed what was eventually released as Combat Rock, but I think we're really just hearing (nth-gen copies, mostly) of a work-in-progress. KYR from Rat Patrol is wretched, but I refuse to believe Mick ever meant for it to be released that way. Combat Rock actually sounds like a finished product by a professional band.
Yes to this "nth-gen copy". KYR is only a guide vocal in my opinion. Glyn Johns had to be working with a master tape and only made edits or removed complete tracks. What the tapes we've heard offer us is a chance to hear how Mick was working with this stuff. I doubt we've ever really heard a final mix other than what's officially released and then that may just be the best of what's left on tape. I would love to hear the tapes that were presented to Glyn Johns before he put them under the knife.

I still prefer the vesrions Mick did pre Glyn Johns mostly. As those were his original ideas and how he was shaping up the album. Of course I doubt they were his final mixes and that's where we are at as we never will. There's no way what you've heard on bootleg is what Glyn Johns had to work with.
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