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Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
by Marky Dread
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:04pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:00pm
I'm not a lyrics guy, but isn't Hitsville especially dumb because it's The Clash praising indie labels...while being signed to CBS?
That is the whole point of the song. The fact that a band who have made it big time on a big label can acknowledge and appreciate smaller bands whose only way in is through the smaler outlets.
It just comes across hypocritical. Why praise bands that stick with indie labels if you yourself chose not to?
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
by matedog
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:04pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:00pm
I'm not a lyrics guy, but isn't Hitsville especially dumb because it's The Clash praising indie labels...while being signed to CBS?
That is the whole point of the song. The fact that a band who have made it big time on a big label can acknowledge and appreciate smaller bands whose only way in is through the smaler outlets.
It just comes across hypocritical. Why praise bands that stick with indie labels if you yourself chose not to?
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote at the time? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
by Marky Dread
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:04pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:00pm
I'm not a lyrics guy, but isn't Hitsville especially dumb because it's The Clash praising indie labels...while being signed to CBS?
That is the whole point of the song. The fact that a band who have made it big time on a big label can acknowledge and appreciate smaller bands whose only way in is through the smaler outlets.
It just comes across hypocritical. Why praise bands that stick with indie labels if you yourself chose not to?
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
by matedog
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:04pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 2:24pm
That is the whole point of the song. The fact that a band who have made it big time on a big label can acknowledge and appreciate smaller bands whose only way in is through the smaler outlets.
It just comes across hypocritical. Why praise bands that stick with indie labels if you yourself chose not to?
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:33pm
by matedog
Also, I agree that the quote is ridiculous, just brought it up because if that was the sentiment at the time, then clearly not signing to a major label was an option, generally speaking.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:36pm
by Heston
I think Hitsville was a regret thing with the Clash and an acknowledgement they may have been wrong. It really is a great lyric, like ABBA with a conscience.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:41pm
by Marky Dread
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:04pm
It just comes across hypocritical. Why praise bands that stick with indie labels if you yourself chose not to?
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
It was Polydor Records and they eventually settled for The Jam.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:45pm
by matedog
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:41pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:12pm
Simple because of the changing times. When The Clash signed to CBS and the Sex Pistols to E.M.I. for that matter there were not that many independent labels. Stiff were probably the main one and they had signed The Damned. A lot more smaller labels started in the wake of punk although the majority are just an offshoot of a bigger corporation. But the song celebrates the way a band any size could get something released even if it only appeals to a minority audience. Of course you hardly change the musical world this way but it still proves what is achievable.
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
It was Polydor Records and they eventually settled for The Jam.
I should have known not to doubt MD.
https://books.google.com/books?id=29hwk ... or&f=false
Chris Parry w/Polydor is who I was thinking of.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 3:52pm
by matedog
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:41pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:23pm
What about that famous "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS" quote? I'm drawing a blank from the Clash bios, but there was one indie label that was pushing REALLY hard to sign the band at the time, and The Clash chose CBS over them. I believe they had a very real option to stay indie and chose not to.
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
It was Polydor Records and they eventually settled for The Jam.
I should have known not to doubt MD.
https://books.google.com/books?id=29hwk ... or&f=false
Chris Parry w/Polydor is who I was thinking of.
There is a good discussion about it on those pages. Reasons for them to go indie or not. They point out the Buzzcocks' Spiral Scratch EP was done independently, so it's not like it wasn't an option and they were criticized about it at the time pretty extensively. I could possibly buy the "regret" claim for Hitsville.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 4:03pm
by Dr. Medulla
All that comes down to how one defines punk. If it's something to do with the means of production and artistic purity, then indie and DIY is mandatory. If it's something more aesthetic or even just being big tent—more voices and approaches for audiences to pick from—then maybe the big labels aren't that much of a compromise.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 4:15pm
by Marky Dread
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:52pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:41pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:25pm
Mark Perry said "punk died the day The Clash signed to CBS". Which was utter bullshit.
The other label wanting to sign The Clash was Polydor and they were almost as big as CBS and certainly no indie.
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
It was Polydor Records and they eventually settled for The Jam.
I should have known not to doubt MD.
https://books.google.com/books?id=29hwk ... or&f=false
Chris Parry w/Polydor is who I was thinking of.
There is a good discussion about it on those pages. Reasons for them to go indie or not. They point out the Buzzcocks' Spiral Scratch EP was done independently, so it's not like it wasn't an option and they were criticized about it at the time pretty extensively. I could possibly buy the "regret" claim for Hitsville.
The Buzzcocks released one EP on an Independent their own New Hormones. Then they signed to United Artists. The EP sold out but not without help from the Manchester local Virgin records and of course punk in general. If the Sex Pistols hadn't been making headlines and punk becoming notorious I doubt the Buzzcocks EP as great as it is would've sold that well.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 4:48pm
by matedog
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 4:15pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:52pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:45pm
Marky Dread wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:41pm
matedog wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 3:31pm
When I get home, I'll dig it up, but there was another person pursuing them that was an indie label. He lost a lot of the early punk bands (Pistols too?) but eventually was able to sign successful bands.
It was Polydor Records and they eventually settled for The Jam.
I should have known not to doubt MD.
https://books.google.com/books?id=29hwk ... or&f=false
Chris Parry w/Polydor is who I was thinking of.
There is a good discussion about it on those pages. Reasons for them to go indie or not. They point out the Buzzcocks' Spiral Scratch EP was done independently, so it's not like it wasn't an option and they were criticized about it at the time pretty extensively. I could possibly buy the "regret" claim for Hitsville.
The Buzzcocks released one EP on an Independent their own New Hormones. Then they signed to United Artists. The EP sold out but not without help from the Manchester local Virgin records and of course punk in general. If the Sex Pistols hadn't been making headlines and punk becoming notorious I doubt the Buzzcocks EP as great as it is would've sold that well.
And Perry (Mark) makes that point in ROLGIT as well, that the Gundy incident put punk in the national pysche. By early 77, punk didn't necessarily need the major label push. I don't necessarily think that The Clash sold out, but the subject of Hitsville seems antithetical to their actions in early 77. Like Hes said, I could see it as them saying they wish they could be on an indie label or regret not being on one. At least in early 81 when, as you noted, indie labels were more prominent.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 5:18pm
by Heston
It was pretty much insanity releasing Hitsville as a single, I think their stock was at an all time low in the UK at that point.
The Call Up was an unusual choice of single as well. Strange that they only released one single from LC but 3 from Sandinista. The sane choice would have been to follow the LC single with Rudi and Train In Vain. Bankrobber would have been the lead off single from S!, followed by Mag 7 and Police On My Back. Six top 30 hits right there.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 5:35pm
by Dr. Medulla
Heston wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 5:18pm
The Call Up was an unusual choice of single as well.
But valuable in terms of asserting socially conscious rock. Even tho they were pursuing a wider audience, they weren't abandoning unconventional subject matter for the radio.
Re: Clash Songs Ranked
Posted: 19 Oct 2017, 6:12pm
by Marky Dread
Heston wrote: ↑19 Oct 2017, 5:18pm
It was pretty much insanity releasing Hitsville as a single, I think their stock was at an all time low in the UK at that point.
The Call Up was an unusual choice of single as well. Strange that they only released one single from LC but 3 from Sandinista. The sane choice would have been to follow the LC single with Rudi and Train In Vain. Bankrobber would have been the lead off single from S!, followed by Mag 7 and Police On My Back. Six top 30 hits right there.
Yeah Bankrobber is technically a S! track as it came from those sessions. Train in Vain did get a single release in 1980 as an import with Bankrobber on the flip. Rudie Can't Fail got a single release in New Zealand and Police On My Back got a single release in Australia. All very odd it's like they were scarred of success here.