Marky Dread Remasters

Clash clash clash. ¡VIVAN LOS NORTEAMERICANOS DEL IMCT Y LAS BRIGADAS DEL CADILLAC NUEVO!
muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4709
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by muppet hi fi » 17 Nov 2017, 11:24pm

Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:13pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:53pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:43pm
I know I may be in the minority but I thought they were poor at the US Festival. The fire had gone out and the drummer wasn't that good. They should have hired Rick Buckler when Terry left again.
Well don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Yeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.
I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
- Marky Dread and his fabulous Screaming Blue Messiahs

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 17 Nov 2017, 11:39pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:24pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:13pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:53pm

Well don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Yeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.
I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
Precious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".
Image

muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4709
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by muppet hi fi » 17 Nov 2017, 11:46pm

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:39pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:24pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:13pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm


Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Yeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.
I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
Precious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".
Had precisely that late-era material in mind. And the covers and overall vibe seem to stop with early/mid-70s soul. Not the modern funk the Clash were exploring.

And "Music For the Last Couple", tho very cool, is about as authentic reggae as much of Terry's work in ''82.
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
- Marky Dread and his fabulous Screaming Blue Messiahs

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 17 Nov 2017, 11:56pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:39pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:24pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:13pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm

Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Yeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.
I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
Precious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".
Had precisely that late-era material in mind. And the covers and overall vibe seem to stop with early/mid-70s soul. Not the modern funk the Clash were exploring.

And "Music For the Last Couple", tho very cool, is about as authentic reggae as much of Terry's work in ''82.
Rick could've easily played funk and reggae no problem. The fact that The Jam played more soul/R&B/Mod Rock doesn't mean Rick wasn't versatile enough to play anything else. The Clash just chose more diverse styles than The Jam is all mate.
Image

muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4709
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by muppet hi fi » 18 Nov 2017, 12:17am

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:56pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:46pm
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:39pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:24pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:13pm


Yeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.
I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
Precious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".
Had precisely that late-era material in mind. And the covers and overall vibe seem to stop with early/mid-70s soul. Not the modern funk the Clash were exploring.

And "Music For the Last Couple", tho very cool, is about as authentic reggae as much of Terry's work in ''82.
Rick could've easily played funk and reggae no problem. The fact that The Jam played more soul/R&B/Mod Rock doesn't mean Rick wasn't versatile enough to play anything else. The Clash just chose more diverse styles than The Jam is all mate.
That's basically what I'm saying. Plus the fact that Clash only had nine days to start the tour I'm sure they were comfortable playing their material arena and stadium sized while cutting down on the rhythmic nuances of their Topper work (which no doubt Buckler could have played, given more time to rehearse). There are any number of great drummers would have been qualified and welcomed the cash for that tour (Dolphin Taylor, Martin Chambers could have made time as the Pretenders were still re-grouping then, Jerry Nolan was professional enough to get clean for such a great payday, aforementioned Mark Brzecki who was just recording and doing small gigs with Townshend, even Paul Cook or Mike Kellie from the Only ones who had just split) but I'm convinced that Terry was the right guy at the right time and for solid reasons.

EDIT: plus Terry was pretty much a teetotaler, so that was probably a welcome and stable vibe to a band really trying get huge and make some real cash.
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
- Marky Dread and his fabulous Screaming Blue Messiahs

TeddyB Not Logged In
User avatar
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1604
Joined: 06 Feb 2009, 8:42pm

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by TeddyB Not Logged In » 18 Nov 2017, 5:26am

Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:14pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:53pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:43pm
I know I may be in the minority but I thought they were poor at the US Festival. The fire had gone out and the drummer wasn't that good. They should have hired Rick Buckler when Terry left again.
Well don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Dave Ruffy from The Ruts wouldve pulled it off.
Which is why Mick and Tony first chose Ruffy and Segs for the nascent version of C/S. Sounded great on paper, but Mick eventually thought their playing was distracting from what he heard in his head; perhaps they rocked everything up too similarly. Then they had a financial hassle and everyone went their own way. I don’t feature Rick Buckler in the Clash. Martin had the Mott and Chrissie connections but doesn’t seem like a fit personally. Jerry Nolan would have been a crazy pick after sacking Topper. Jerry never did stay clean, and he had a big attitude. Love his drumming, but no.

Mick thought Pete Howard was a good choice under the circumstances.

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Nov 2017, 5:52am

TeddyB Not Logged In wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 5:26am
Marky Dread wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:14pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:53pm

Well don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Dave Ruffy from The Ruts wouldve pulled it off.
Which is why Mick and Tony first chose Ruffy and Segs for the nascent version of C/S. Sounded great on paper, but Mick eventually thought their playing was distracting from what he heard in his head; perhaps they rocked everything up too similarly. Then they had a financial hassle and everyone went their own way. I don’t feature Rick Buckler in the Clash. Martin had the Mott and Chrissie connections but doesn’t seem like a fit personally. Jerry Nolan would have been a crazy pick after sacking Topper. Jerry never did stay clean, and he had a big attitude. Love his drumming, but no.

Mick thought Pete Howard was a good choice under the circumstances.
Shame that didn't work with Segs/Ruffy. I think Pete was a good tub thumper.
Image

matedog
User avatar
Purveyor of Hoyistic Thought
Posts: 20598
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: 1995

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by matedog » 18 Nov 2017, 1:20pm

muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 11:11pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:59pm
muppet hi fi wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:53pm
Heston wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 10:43pm
I know I may be in the minority but I thought they were poor at the US Festival. The fire had gone out and the drummer wasn't that good. They should have hired Rick Buckler when Terry left again.
Well don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Was over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.
Oh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
Never focused on The Jam drumming, but he seemed pretty adept. Terry had no idea how to play reggae on an even fundamental level (though you could technically argue his Armagideon Time was more faithful than Topper's). Buckler was probably a better drummer on a fundamental and could have adapted Topper's parts better.

As most noted, Pete was a superior technical drummer. Consequently, Pete was able to properly learn Topper's parts and then add his own business on top of it, for better or worse, where as Terry had to dumb everything way down. I do enjoy hearing Pete's take on parts that Topper had really gotten stale on, for example, WMHP. I'm not saying he was better, just that it was interesting to hear different fills, etc. His overplaying was distracting on things like 84 Tommy Gun.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1480
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Low Down Low » 18 Nov 2017, 1:36pm

Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Nov 2017, 2:09pm

Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 1:36pm
Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
To be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.
Image

Low Down Low
Graffiti Bandit Pioneer
Posts: 1480
Joined: 21 Aug 2014, 9:08am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Low Down Low » 18 Nov 2017, 2:37pm

Marky Dread wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:09pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 1:36pm
Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
To be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.
I think his anger was at a lot of things, including himself, but you're right, he ends up just preaching to a crowd of people who have paid a lot of money on the pretext of being entertained and having a good time. Was it at that show where Joe does the interview in which he's sitting outside, slumped in his chair, looking weary and depressed?

coffeepotman
Long Time Jerk
Posts: 669
Joined: 23 Jun 2008, 1:51pm

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by coffeepotman » 18 Nov 2017, 2:57pm

Joe's rants were pure cringeworthy, what an embarrassment and as a high school Clash fan I was tormented by it by everyone around me. On my personal copy I edited out all of his nonsense and with that gone it was a pretty good show.

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Nov 2017, 3:32pm

Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:37pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:09pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 1:36pm
Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
To be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.
I think his anger was at a lot of things, including himself, but you're right, he ends up just preaching to a crowd of people who have paid a lot of money on the pretext of being entertained and having a good time. Was it at that show where Joe does the interview in which he's sitting outside, slumped in his chair, looking weary and depressed?
I don't remember that interview.
Image

Marky Dread
User avatar
Messiah of the Milk Bar
Posts: 38204
Joined: 17 Jun 2008, 11:26am

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Marky Dread » 18 Nov 2017, 3:47pm

coffeepotman wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:57pm
Joe's rants were pure cringeworthy, what an embarrassment and as a high school Clash fan I was tormented by it by everyone around me. On my personal copy I edited out all of his nonsense and with that gone it was a pretty good show.
Yeah normally Joe is very entertaining with his inbetween song banter. Thinking about this show it sadly being Mick's last with the band. It''s also the start of Joe losing a certain quality when it comes to his stage presence. His rants and interviews with the second incarnation of the band are worth a tale all of its own.
Image

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 27982
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Marky Dread Remasters

Post by Heston » 18 Nov 2017, 4:07pm

Marky Dread wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 3:32pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:37pm
Marky Dread wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 2:09pm
Low Down Low wrote:
18 Nov 2017, 1:36pm
Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
To be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.
I think his anger was at a lot of things, including himself, but you're right, he ends up just preaching to a crowd of people who have paid a lot of money on the pretext of being entertained and having a good time. Was it at that show where Joe does the interview in which he's sitting outside, slumped in his chair, looking weary and depressed?
I don't remember that interview.
I think I know the one he means but it's not the US Festival, it's a Who show I think.
I just polished off some Low Country shrimp & grits and a mess of collards. That's a hell of a strain on the arm.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests