I'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.Heston wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:13pmYeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:11pmOh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).Heston wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:59pmWas over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:53pmWell don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Marky Dread Remasters
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Strong shoes is what we got and when they're hot they're hot!
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:03am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Had precisely that late-era material in mind. And the covers and overall vibe seem to stop with early/mid-70s soul. Not the modern funk the Clash were exploring.Marky Dread wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:39pmPrecious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:24pmI'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.Heston wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:13pmYeah, I reckon Rick could have pulled off reggae/hip hop whatever.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:11pmOh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).
And "Music For the Last Couple", tho very cool, is about as authentic reggae as much of Terry's work in ''82.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:04am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
That's basically what I'm saying. Plus the fact that Clash only had nine days to start the tour I'm sure they were comfortable playing their material arena and stadium sized while cutting down on the rhythmic nuances of their Topper work (which no doubt Buckler could have played, given more time to rehearse). There are any number of great drummers would have been qualified and welcomed the cash for that tour (Dolphin Taylor, Martin Chambers could have made time as the Pretenders were still re-grouping then, Jerry Nolan was professional enough to get clean for such a great payday, aforementioned Mark Brzecki who was just recording and doing small gigs with Townshend, even Paul Cook or Mike Kellie from the Only ones who had just split) but I'm convinced that Terry was the right guy at the right time and for solid reasons.Marky Dread wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:56pmRick could've easily played funk and reggae no problem. The fact that The Jam played more soul/R&B/Mod Rock doesn't mean Rick wasn't versatile enough to play anything else. The Clash just chose more diverse styles than The Jam is all mate.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:46pmHad precisely that late-era material in mind. And the covers and overall vibe seem to stop with early/mid-70s soul. Not the modern funk the Clash were exploring.Marky Dread wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:39pmPrecious/Move On Up/War/Stoned Out of My Mind/there's The reggaefied track on Sound Affects. But no way the Clash would've employed Rick in a million years Remember The Jam were on tour with The Clash and had a falling out.Then there was Weller stating he would vote Tory in the next election and the Clash replying with "Maggie wants you for target practice".muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:24pmI'm just saying the Jam hadn't really played reggae or modern funk before. They were very traditionalist and seemed to halt their soul/r n' b roots at maybe 1974 or so. So he's clearly a much better drummer than Terry, but Terry must have got locked into the current London groove as opposed to bumfuck Woking.
And "Music For the Last Couple", tho very cool, is about as authentic reggae as much of Terry's work in ''82.
EDIT: plus Terry was pretty much a teetotaler, so that was probably a welcome and stable vibe to a band really trying get huge and make some real cash.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Which is why Mick and Tony first chose Ruffy and Segs for the nascent version of C/S. Sounded great on paper, but Mick eventually thought their playing was distracting from what he heard in his head; perhaps they rocked everything up too similarly. Then they had a financial hassle and everyone went their own way. I don’t feature Rick Buckler in the Clash. Martin had the Mott and Chrissie connections but doesn’t seem like a fit personally. Jerry Nolan would have been a crazy pick after sacking Topper. Jerry never did stay clean, and he had a big attitude. Love his drumming, but no.Marky Dread wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:14pmDave Ruffy from The Ruts wouldve pulled it off.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:11pmOh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).Heston wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:59pmWas over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:53pmWell don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
Mick thought Pete Howard was a good choice under the circumstances.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Never focused on The Jam drumming, but he seemed pretty adept. Terry had no idea how to play reggae on an even fundamental level (though you could technically argue his Armagideon Time was more faithful than Topper's). Buckler was probably a better drummer on a fundamental and could have adapted Topper's parts better.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 11:11pmOh I'm not denying Rick's one of the greats, but could he pull off reggae and modern funk/hip hop as well as Terry sometimes managed? And anyway, we know why they picked Terry - he was a known quantity and they needed someone to do the gigs in nine days. Shit, if they'd really wanted to go balls out with probably the best session drummer on the scene, the coulda asked Mark Brzecki before he was in Big Country (which, incidentally, Rick Buckler was playing in briefly after the Skids broke up and Stuart and Bruce got Tony and Mark and nailed the sound).Heston wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:59pmWas over for the Jam in December 82, Buckler could have done anything, 100 times better than Terry. Listen to Funeral Pyre and imagine Terry attempting it. It would have sounded like someone throwing a drum kit down the stairs.muppet hi fi wrote: ↑17 Nov 2017, 10:53pmWell don't tell Matey about this! Yeah, I've always the Pete Howard was waaaay too techy for the Clash (Clash Mk II - fuggetaboutit). But I don't know that Buckler could cut all the styles (great as he is), not even as well as Terry managed. And wasn't he still with the Jam touring 'The Gift' in September '83 or had they called it a day by then as well?
As most noted, Pete was a superior technical drummer. Consequently, Pete was able to properly learn Topper's parts and then add his own business on top of it, for better or worse, where as Terry had to dumb everything way down. I do enjoy hearing Pete's take on parts that Topper had really gotten stale on, for example, WMHP. I'm not saying he was better, just that it was interesting to hear different fills, etc. His overplaying was distracting on things like 84 Tommy Gun.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Never thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:05am, edited 1 time in total.
Forces have been looting
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
I think his anger was at a lot of things, including himself, but you're right, he ends up just preaching to a crowd of people who have paid a lot of money on the pretext of being entertained and having a good time. Was it at that show where Joe does the interview in which he's sitting outside, slumped in his chair, looking weary and depressed?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 2:09pmTo be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.Low Down Low wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 1:36pmNever thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
Joe's rants were pure cringeworthy, what an embarrassment and as a high school Clash fan I was tormented by it by everyone around me. On my personal copy I edited out all of his nonsense and with that gone it was a pretty good show.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:06am, edited 1 time in total.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
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Last edited by Marky Dread on 19 Jan 2021, 8:06am, edited 1 time in total.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.
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Re: Marky Dread Remasters
I think I know the one he means but it's not the US Festival, it's a Who show I think.Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 3:32pmI don't remember that interview.Low Down Low wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 2:37pmI think his anger was at a lot of things, including himself, but you're right, he ends up just preaching to a crowd of people who have paid a lot of money on the pretext of being entertained and having a good time. Was it at that show where Joe does the interview in which he's sitting outside, slumped in his chair, looking weary and depressed?Marky Dread wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 2:09pmTo be honest the only thing that was off putting for me were Joe's inbetween rants. All that "you buy you die" rubbish Joe said he wasn't very good at this show but it's not his playing it's his stage performance. His anger was at the promoter but he comes across as attacking the audience.Low Down Low wrote: ↑18 Nov 2017, 1:36pmNever thought the US Festival was a great show but it was the first video footage I ever saw of the band, indeed the only footage I had for several years, and so treasured it for that reason. Love Joe's vocals on Know Your Rights, the high point of the show for me.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board