What was the rift inside the Clash?

[vacuumcleaner]

Do you know why there were problems between Mick and Paul? The wikipedia page for one of the singles said Mick and Paul were no longer on speaking terms. This was a long time before London Calling.

The Clash ended because Topper left due to bad habits and then Joe, Paul and Bernie Rhodes decided to tell Mick to leave, so that was it. I've read that Mick had a personality conflict with the others but it was mostly after Sandinista. In particular, they had a fight about the song Know Your Rights and how to arrange it. They said they'd been thinking about sacking Mick around the time of LC. But now it looks like it started even before then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_City_Rockers

[101Walterton]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

[TeddyB Not Logged In]

Rude Boy isn't exactly real. Mick and Paul have fallen out a dozen times over the years, and have been close in between. They are a bit oil and water really. Mick and Joe were closer for long periods of time, as were Joe and Paul. They were all headstrong and opinionated. The London Calling period was the time all three got along best, with Bernie gone.

[vacuumcleaner]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

[101Walterton]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

[TeddyB Not Logged In]

I suppose that's true. It was resolved for a time after Bernie was sacked, during the filming. The group was closest in '79.

[muppet hi fi]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

[101Walterton]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Crikey haven't watched it in a while but wasn't there a theme running through it where the bands patience seems to be wearing thin of Mick's behaviour, turning up late etc.. I remember a scene in the studio? and outside Clerkenwell Mags.

[101Walterton]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Not sure if Ray was referring to a Chinese doorman when he said lemonade? Lemonade is slang for a black person, lemonade = spade

[muppet hi fi]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Crikey haven't watched it in a while but wasn't there a theme running through it where the bands patience seems to be wearing thin of Mick's behaviour, turning up late etc.. I remember a scene in the studio? and outside Clerkenwell Mags.

Right, I forgot about the rehearsal scene ("Garageland") where Mick shows up late and everyone is pretty annoyed with him. And what/where is Clerkenwall Mags? A gig venue? (I'm a dumb Yank, mate ).

[muppet hi fi]

Have you watched Rude Boy?

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Not sure if Ray was referring to a Chinese doorman when he said lemonade? Lemonade is slang for a black person, lemonade = spade

Really? Hmm...I'm hip to the cockney rhyming slang thing, but the scene is Ray showing up to work at a gig, is late, walks in the front door with a beer, and an Asian dude says he can't take the beer in, so Ray gives the beer to someone else. Next scene is Ray backstage before the band go on, Ray says "lemonade", Mick says "what do you mean - lemonade?" Ray says something about Chinese peeps chanting 'rasta far I' and how it's funny hearing black guys singing "White Riot"; Mick says "You don't like them, do you?" Ray says "I suppose not". Mick says "I've been watching you". Ray says "Yeah, I've noticed. I'll keep that in mind". Mick says "Do."

So I just assumed Ray was talking about the Asian doorman, as he mentions (and laughs at) black folk separately.

[101Walterton]

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Crikey haven't watched it in a while but wasn't there a theme running through it where the bands patience seems to be wearing thin of Mick's behaviour, turning up late etc.. I remember a scene in the studio? and outside Clerkenwell Mags.

Right, I forgot about the rehearsal scene ("Garageland") where Mick shows up late and everyone is pretty annoyed with him. And what/where is Clerkenwall Mags? A gig venue? (I'm a dumb Yank, mate ).

Magistrates Court When Mick turns up in the taxi.

[101Walterton]

Of course I've watched Rude Boy. Why is that your answer?

There was an evident rift throughout the film. I know the film is ' not real' as Teddy said but.....

I never got any sense of a rift in the band from the film. I thought the band was generally acting "cool" and perhaps a bit detached, aside from Mick who seemed the most passionate and most courageous (i.e. the scene where he's reading Ray the riot-act over Rays racist comments about a "lemonade" [a Chinese doorman at a gig]). But after watching film a hundred times, no, I never got a sense of internal troubles.

Any examples, Wally?

Not sure if Ray was referring to a Chinese doorman when he said lemonade? Lemonade is slang for a black person, lemonade = spade

Really? Hmm...I'm hip to the cockney rhyming slang thing, but the scene is Ray showing up to work at a gig, is late, walks in the front door with a beer, and an Asian dude says he can't take the beer in, so Ray gives the beer to someone else. Next scene is Ray backstage before the band go on, Ray says "lemonade", Mick says "what do you mean - lemonade?" Ray says something about Chinese peeps chanting 'rasta far I' and how it's funny hearing black guys singing "White Riot"; Mick says "You don't like them, do you?" Ray says "I suppose not". Mick says "I've been watching you". Ray says "Yeah, I've noticed. I'll keep that in mind". Mick says "Do."

So I just assumed Ray was talking about the Asian doorman, as he mentions (and laughs at) black folk separately.

He may be, perhaps Ray was trying (incorrectly) to use slang. Lemonade definitely refers to black people in derogatory terms. Lemonade would never be used to describe an Asian person.

[vacuumcleaner]

Ray said he thought it was funny that a black man was singing along with White Riot. He said it's like a white guy singing about Rasta. Mick chastised Ray for saying all that. I'm not sure if Mick needed to do that or not. Early precursor to political correctness?

Funny thing is, I think Joe Strummer was into Rastafarianism.

A band could never release a song like White Riot today. Too distasteful. The world is different.

[101Walterton]

Ray said he thought it was funny that a black man was singing along with White Riot. He said it's like a white guy singing about Rasta. Mick chastised Ray for saying all that. I'm not sure if Mick needed to do that or not. Early precursor to political correctness?

Funny thing is, I think Joe Strummer was into Rastafarianism.

A band could never release a song like White Riot today. Too distasteful. The world is different.

Distasteful? Too honest maybe but not distasteful.