On a lighter topic...

[101Walterton]

There is a campaign in NZ to get rid of all cats including domestic pets.
We spend millions on try to eradicate rats, stoats etc. to protect native birds and lizards yet domestic cats are equally lethal killers.

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

A better solution might be to enforce mandatory indoor living for cats. It won't do any good to exterminate them, but native fauna populations are more important than introduced pets.

Think I agree but there has to be protection for both.

Why?
Cats were introduced (as were rats and stoats) and are killing off the native birds. A lot of native birds can't fly as they do (did) not have a need to as they had no predators.
Most of the lizards are gone including the Tuatara which has been around since prehistoric times.
It is never going to happen (eliminating domestic and feral cats) however I have no problem with it.

[muppet hi fi]

Interesting thread, folks. Thanks.

Youse might want to read this book - she lived with big cats in Africa and India, and basically argues that all cats share the same traits and culture, including so-called domestic cats. I tend to agree with her. There's a great passage where she's in Africa and there are some semi-domstic small cats around the camp and a semi-tame lioness. One of the wee cats was pregnant, and the the lioness showed her complete deference. Fascinating book.

[muppet hi fi]

Cats are the ultimate survivors. Interesting to read about their history. Maybe the only animal that domesticated itself - versus being domesticated by humans. That said - I think the line between being domestic and being wild is still very blurry for the "domestic" cat. Great documentary I recently watched called "The Lion in Your Living Room" and they had some expert who mentioned what was truly remarkable about the cat was that they offered very little to humans, yet they managed to earn a place in our homes and are today the most popular pet in the world.

The assessment of housecats that I've always liked is that, when we take them in as kittens and teach them that, don't worry, we'll provide food and shelter, we stunt their maturity, leaving them in a certain state of kitten dependence the rest of their lives. Not that I regret that one iota. My girls aren't being unleashed into society, where they will interact and affect others, so I don't give a lick about their social development. I spoil my girls without a second thought because I love the bastards and am in a position of making their lives comfortable. They don't know a life without us and feel a loss when we're not around—even if I'm not home when they're fed supper, when I return they both get really excited. It's not just material dependence, but a psychological attachment. Their happiness and contentment necessarily nurtures my own.

Nice one, Doc. Exactly my view.

And it's not just some "New Age-y" fairy tale that says animals (most commonly cats and dogs and rabbits etc.) are salutary to humans mental and indeed physical health - it's straight up science. Fact. And this fact wasn't just discovered in the late 20th century either.

[101Walterton]

Cats are the ultimate survivors. Interesting to read about their history. Maybe the only animal that domesticated itself - versus being domesticated by humans. That said - I think the line between being domestic and being wild is still very blurry for the "domestic" cat. Great documentary I recently watched called "The Lion in Your Living Room" and they had some expert who mentioned what was truly remarkable about the cat was that they offered very little to humans, yet they managed to earn a place in our homes and are today the most popular pet in the world.

The assessment of housecats that I've always liked is that, when we take them in as kittens and teach them that, don't worry, we'll provide food and shelter, we stunt their maturity, leaving them in a certain state of kitten dependence the rest of their lives. Not that I regret that one iota. My girls aren't being unleashed into society, where they will interact and affect others, so I don't give a lick about their social development. I spoil my girls without a second thought because I love the bastards and am in a position of making their lives comfortable. They don't know a life without us and feel a loss when we're not around—even if I'm not home when they're fed supper, when I return they both get really excited. It's not just material dependence, but a psychological attachment. Their happiness and contentment necessarily nurtures my own.

Nice one, Doc. Exactly my view.

And it's not just some "New Age-y" fairy tale that says animals (most commonly cats and dogs and rabbits etc.) are salutary to humans mental and indeed physical health - it's straight up science. Fact. And this fact wasn't just discovered in the late 20th century either.

Interesting although I'd suggest was different for dogs. Dogs are pack animals so living in a family group (of other dogs or not) is natural behaviour for them. They know their place in the family like they would know their place in pack. Their behaviour is normal.

[Marky Dread]

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

A better solution might be to enforce mandatory indoor living for cats. It won't do any good to exterminate them, but native fauna populations are more important than introduced pets.

Think I agree but there has to be protection for both.

Why?

Because mankind introduced the cat as a domestic animal and so therefore has an obligation of responsibility to them. Or are you arguing that it's a case of feral versus domestication?

[101Walterton]

Just sounds plain evil to me.

A better solution might be to enforce mandatory indoor living for cats. It won't do any good to exterminate them, but native fauna populations are more important than introduced pets.

Think I agree but there has to be protection for both.

Why?

Because mankind introduced the cat as a domestic animal and so therefore has an obligation of responsibility to them. Or are you arguing that it's a case of feral versus domestication?

Both.
I don't think the cat population was intentionally introduced to NZ, more than likely jumped ship. If owners spayed their cats and then didn't replace them when they died the domestic population would die out naturally. Feral cats should be euthanised anyway in NZ.

[101Walterton]

Well that conversation turned weird you took the words right out of my mouth Marky

[Marky Dread]

Well that conversation turned weird you took the words right out of my mouth Marky

Cat got your tongue.

[JennyB]

There is a campaign in NZ to get rid of all cats including domestic pets.
We spend millions on try to eradicate rats, stoats etc. to protect native birds and lizards yet domestic cats are equally lethal killers.

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

[101Walterton]

There is a campaign in NZ to get rid of all cats including domestic pets.
We spend millions on try to eradicate rats, stoats etc. to protect native birds and lizards yet domestic cats are equally lethal killers.

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

[WestwayKid]

There is a campaign in NZ to get rid of all cats including domestic pets.
We spend millions on try to eradicate rats, stoats etc. to protect native birds and lizards yet domestic cats are equally lethal killers.

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

Trap...neuter...return.

[Heston]

There is a campaign in NZ to get rid of all cats including domestic pets.
We spend millions on try to eradicate rats, stoats etc. to protect native birds and lizards yet domestic cats are equally lethal killers.

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

Tom's nuts removed.

[101Walterton]

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

Trap...neuter...return.

I have less time for feral cats who do most of the damage. A TNR program would be too hard to manage and too damaging in the interim.
Plus what happens when a domestic cat goes feral or its kittens abandoned back to square one.

[Marky Dread]

I can appreciate the sentiment in a fragile and confined ecosystem, but I can't get behind any kind of program of eradication.

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

Tom's nuts removed.

[JennyB]

Just sounds plain evil to me.

I think a far more humane solution would be to implement a TNR program for feral cats.

What is a TNR program?

Trap...neuter...return.

I have less time for feral cats who do most of the damage. A TNR program would be too hard to manage and too damaging in the interim.
Plus what happens when a domestic cat goes feral or its kittens abandoned back to square one.

TNR programs have been extremely successful in cities where implemented. It's humane and ends up greatly reducing the population. It's not at all too hard to manage.