Wilderness Years - vote your top 3

[Heston]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

[Silent Majority]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

I'd say the three I almost mentioned in my 3 are classics, and there's a number in the Meskies era. Shaktar Donetsk is better than about a third of Sandinista! and about half of Combat Rock. And 75% of GEER, as it goes. Then there's Coma Girl, a classic rock song, no two ways about it.

[NoMoreHugh]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

I'd say the three I almost mentioned in my 3 are classics, and there's a number in the Meskies era. Shaktar Donetsk is better than about a third of Sandinista! and about half of Combat Rock. And 75% of GEER, as it goes. Then there's Coma Girl, a classic rock song, no two ways about it.

i agree with your 3 unfortunately you need to write 10/11 good songs to write an album. I dont have the patience to be disappointed by albums that hold one good song at a time.
I love Burning Lights too and thought Joe has got it in him then i found out he didn't write it :(

[Dr. Medulla]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

I'd say the three I almost mentioned in my 3 are classics, and there's a number in the Meskies era. Shaktar Donetsk is better than about a third of Sandinista! and about half of Combat Rock. And 75% of GEER, as it goes. Then there's Coma Girl, a classic rock song, no two ways about it.

"Get Down Moses" tops all Meskie tunes by a far margin for me. It's got an infectious groove married to a jeremiad lyric. An undeniable gem in his songbook.

[dave202]

I still think a remixed and remastered deluxe release of Earthquake Weather is one of the great opportunities open to the Legacy imprint to put out there. I get that we always try to check ourselves on how much currency Joe and The Clash really have in the wider world, but there's no way they couldn't figure out how to make a reissue of The First Joe Strummer Solo Album worth it - way more obscure artists get the remix/deluxe treatment.

I agree, with the b-sides bolstering the first disc and the second disc could tie up the odds and ends around that era, like Permanent Record tracks, Love Kills etc.

[NoMoreHugh]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

Also It doesn't help being the recognised sound of the clash with your name on the credits for those songs - I think the Record company should have paired him up with someone but they probably didn't realise like the rest of us, until it was too late, that there was another talent that they had let get away.

[Low Down Low]

Of course Mick was the de facto musical director with the Clash but Joe's input is very easy to overlook. He was more than a simple wordsmith and he was a great songwriter in his own right. That's my take on it anyway.

I think Joe needed to be inspired and of course definitely needs Micks input and advice. Most of those songs are average and somewhere in their is probably a song that can be saved it just needs Mick to say "try this" "and try that" and to be able to craft the song and translate it into something better, something that makes everyone stop and listen.

Joe's songwriting is similar to myself strumming straight eights to a great song clash song, singing flatly all the way through crucifying it to nothing. Only its the other way in reverse for Joe. The song is there it just needs a tune smith and craftsman like Mick to reveal it. I dont think good production would improve the songs i think it needs a slight rewrite.

Yin and Yang

I don't think you're wrong in any of that at all. But I don't think it was anything as basic as Joe coming round with a few words and chords on a scrap of paper and telling Mick to make a song out of that. I'm certain he had his own ideas and input into things and he was a stubborn, pig-headed man as we all know. And I guess if you're not a fan of Joe's solo output, then you're not going to attach much weight to his later songs. But while Joe and Mick were a terrific collaborative double act, in my opinion Joe proved he didn't actually need Mick long before the end. And I reckon he still had some of his best music ahead of him, but I may be in a minority on that one!

[msza2]

Oops, see below

[msza2]

Of course Mick was the de facto musical director with the Clash but Joe's input is very easy to overlook. He was more than a simple wordsmith and he was a great songwriter in his own right. That's my take on it anyway.

I think Joe needed to be inspired and of course definitely needs Micks input and advice. Most of those songs are average and somewhere in their is probably a song that can be saved it just needs Mick to say "try this" "and try that" and to be able to craft the song and translate it into something better, something that makes everyone stop and listen.

Joe's songwriting is similar to myself strumming straight eights to a great song clash song, singing flatly all the way through crucifying it to nothing. Only its the other way in reverse for Joe. The song is there it just needs a tune smith and craftsman like Mick to reveal it. I dont think good production would improve the songs i think it needs a slight rewrite.

Yin and Yang

I don't think you're wrong in any of that at all. But I don't think it was anything as basic as Joe coming round with a few words and chords on a scrap of paper and telling Mick to make a song out of that. I'm certain he had his own ideas and input into things and he was a stubborn, pig-headed man as we all know. And I guess if you're not a fan of Joe's solo output, then you're not going to attach much weight to his later songs. But while Joe and Mick were a terrific collaborative double act, in my opinion Joe proved he didn't actually need Mick long before the end. And I reckon he still had some of his best music ahead of him, but I may be in a minority on that one!

Agreed.

It's pretty well accepted that Joe only played his own Clash tunes in the Mescaleros. The intro to WHIMP is a Mick part to my ears, and Joe often started White Man without that intro piece in the Meskies. That leads me to believe that Joe's Clash tunes were pretty much Joe's vision first note to last. I think some of yall arent giving Joe enough credit for his tunesmithing.

Yes, some of his later work was bloated, but so was Mick's. Dude was writing 6 minute dance-pop songs. You can't tell me he would have benefitted from some oversight as well

[Low Down Low]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

Also It doesn't help being the recognised sound of the clash with your name on the credits for those songs - I think the Record company should have paired him up with someone but they probably didn't realise like the rest of us, until it was too late, that there was another talent that they had let get away.

Sorry mate, not picking on you at all, but why would Joe be listening to record company people as to who he should be paired with? He carefully assembled a group around him that he wanted to play with and that inspired him, Tymon Dogg being the last piece of the Meskie jigsaw to fall into place. I think Joe was more than happy with the music he was making and the place he was in.

[NoMoreHugh]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

Also It doesn't help being the recognised sound of the clash with your name on the credits for those songs - I think the Record company should have paired him up with someone but they probably didn't realise like the rest of us, until it was too late, that there was another talent that they had let get away.

but why would Joe be listening to record company people as to who he should be paired with? .

Good point - i stand corrected

[eumaas]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

I'd say the three I almost mentioned in my 3 are classics, and there's a number in the Meskies era. Shaktar Donetsk is better than about a third of Sandinista! and about half of Combat Rock. And 75% of GEER, as it goes. Then there's Coma Girl, a classic rock song, no two ways about it.

I love that song, but pissing on GEER means you're dead to me.

[Dr. Medulla]

I kind of agree with NoMoreHugh. Some good songs dotted through his post-Clash career but no stone cold classics, and quite a few duds.

I'd say the three I almost mentioned in my 3 are classics, and there's a number in the Meskies era. Shaktar Donetsk is better than about a third of Sandinista! and about half of Combat Rock. And 75% of GEER, as it goes. Then there's Coma Girl, a classic rock song, no two ways about it.

I love that song, but pissing on GEER means you're dead to me.

On the other hand, he's more alive than ever to me! Trade in your American epileptics for a Canadian model, James. More kilometres on this one, but more familiar spelling habits.

[matedog]

So, on Sunday I was listening to the CD mix of Wilderness Years songs I had in my car, and while that era was very disjointed and aimless, he really had a lot of solid material coming out in dribs and drabs. I wish he had a stronger willed collaborator willing to both encourage and push him in that period.

I enjoy it more than BAD.

This Is BAD beats anything from Joe's whole solo career for me. Rightfully the best selling post-Clash album.

For my money, both TIBad and No 10 are better than any single Joe album. But Joe also had a magnetism in persona and delivery that allowed him to maximize performances that Mick didn't.

Definitely agree with this. Joe didn't have the focus to make an entire album of well-arranged songs on his own, and Mick didn't have the vocalist charisma to carry an entire album on his own (but outside of Joe, never had a collaborator that picked up the slack).

I had originally chalked up my lack of BAD enthusiasm to being too young and too American, but I think this is certainly a factor. He just doesn't have the gravitas to carry tunes like Sightsee M.C. (the Joe versions are good, but don't exactly support my position).

I struggle to make a list of 10 great BAD/CSi songs, but my 20 track Joe comp (including Meskies) is killer.

[Low Down Low]

Of course Mick was the de facto musical director with the Clash but Joe's input is very easy to overlook. He was more than a simple wordsmith and he was a great songwriter in his own right. That's my take on it anyway.

I think Joe needed to be inspired and of course definitely needs Micks input and advice. Most of those songs are average and somewhere in their is probably a song that can be saved it just needs Mick to say "try this" "and try that" and to be able to craft the song and translate it into something better, something that makes everyone stop and listen.

Joe's songwriting is similar to myself strumming straight eights to a great song clash song, singing flatly all the way through crucifying it to nothing. Only its the other way in reverse for Joe. The song is there it just needs a tune smith and craftsman like Mick to reveal it. I dont think good production would improve the songs i think it needs a slight rewrite.

Yin and Yang

I don't think you're wrong in any of that at all. But I don't think it was anything as basic as Joe coming round with a few words and chords on a scrap of paper and telling Mick to make a song out of that. I'm certain he had his own ideas and input into things and he was a stubborn, pig-headed man as we all know. And I guess if you're not a fan of Joe's solo output, then you're not going to attach much weight to his later songs. But while Joe and Mick were a terrific collaborative double act, in my opinion Joe proved he didn't actually need Mick long before the end. And I reckon he still had some of his best music ahead of him, but I may be in a minority on that one!

Agreed.

It's pretty well accepted that Joe only played his own Clash tunes in the Mescaleros. The intro to WHIMP is a Mick part to my ears, and Joe often started White Man without that intro piece in the Meskies. That leads me to believe that Joe's Clash tunes were pretty much Joe's vision first note to last. I think some of yall arent giving Joe enough credit for his tunesmithing.

Yes, some of his later work was bloated, but so was Mick's. Dude was writing 6 minute dance-pop songs. You can't tell me he would have benefitted from some oversight as well

Ah, i've no doubt that Mick was the main man as regards musical composition, just doubt it was all a one way street. Think London Calling and Londons Burning are definitely Joe tunes so the Meskies set list theory may well be valid. We can all have different opinions, but I don't think anybody can objectively say Joe's post-Clash output was in any way inferior to Mick's. Point being their best stuff was produced in collaboration, they inspired each other equally.