Weird about Love Kills, since Mick both played guitar and sang. Also the track is credited to E.T., who engineered it for Mick, who was originally producing as well. When Joe decided he wasn’t satisfied with what was done, he hired Tom Lord-Alge to remix it. Anyway, I didn’t know Joe could play guitar and sing so much like Mick as to have done it all on Love Kills.
So I’m not crazy!!!
Its always seemed clear to me that Mick is all over Love Kills, so much so that the first time I heard it (in the scene in Wired) I thought it was BAD and was shocked to see in the credits it was a Joe Strummer track?!
Joe kept bringing Mick in for stuff and then redoing his work. I feel like he would call Jones, looking to collaborate and Mick would come to the door in a red baseball hat and Joe would instantly be like "Oh, shit, I thought I called 1979 Mick Jones, I forgot I'd be getting the 1987 vintage."
a lifetime serving one machine
Is ten times worse than prison
I am beginning to think that all these demos are pre Lucky 8 (Nov 1983).
1) They are much more basic than Lucky 8 demos. This is England, Pouring Rain, Before We Go Forward (Nov 83 = Backwoods Drive)
2) We are The Clash has a good month by month account of the Clash and there is no reference to tapes in July 1984. The band are clicking their heels waiting. The next tape to appear is the end of August and is the 3 or 4 mariachi tracks recorded by Joe (with Kosmo there) in LA.
I'm beginning to think you are right. The key is probably the different versions of TIE, studying arrangements and lyrical changes to see if there is a coherent path from the August 83 demo to the CTC version. Pouring Rain is radically different in the "July 84" version than any other Clash 2 version. It might make more sense that it was actually pre-Nov 83 as you had suggested since by Nov. 83, it was the straight feel that Clash 2 played and then rearranged (still straight) around April 84. I don't think they played it after the May tour, so it's not impossible that he decided to radically rearrange it after the tour.
So I just compared a number of versions of TIE and decided to focus on one thing that seems to differentiate a number of the versions, the "...sit watching, a newspaper's being read" line.
August 83 "Where Is England/Czechoslovak" version has "Patrol"
Nov 83 - "Copper"
Live 84 versions/CTC - "Police"
The "July 84" version uses "Copper" again. It would seem unlikely that he would revert to this lyric change after performing it live for months one way and then go back to "police" by September. This leads credence to the idea that the "July 84" version is actually from sometime between August and November 83. Along with the "Where is England?" line at the end of it which was only ever used on the August 83 version.
It's a minor thing and one word is hardly definitive, but it would go a long way to explain the absence of Nick/Vince.
Look, you have to establish context for these things. And I maintain that unless you appreciate the Fall of Constantinople, the Great Fire of London, and Mickey Mantle's fatalist alcoholism, live Freddy makes no sense. If you want to half-ass it, fine, go call Simon Schama to do the appendix.
I am beginning to think that all these demos are pre Lucky 8 (Nov 1983).
1) They are much more basic than Lucky 8 demos. This is England, Pouring Rain, Before We Go Forward (Nov 83 = Backwoods Drive)
2) We are The Clash has a good month by month account of the Clash and there is no reference to tapes in July 1984. The band are clicking their heels waiting. The next tape to appear is the end of August and is the 3 or 4 mariachi tracks recorded by Joe (with Kosmo there) in LA.
I'm beginning to think you are right. The key is probably the different versions of TIE, studying arrangements and lyrical changes to see if there is a coherent path from the August 83 demo to the CTC version. Pouring Rain is radically different in the "July 84" version than any other Clash 2 version. It might make more sense that it was actually pre-Nov 83 as you had suggested since by Nov. 83, it was the straight feel that Clash 2 played and then rearranged (still straight) around April 84. I don't think they played it after the May tour, so it's not impossible that he decided to radically rearrange it after the tour.
So I just compared a number of versions of TIE and decided to focus on one thing that seems to differentiate a number of the versions, the "...sit watching, a newspaper's being read" line.
August 83 "Where Is England/Czechoslovak" version has "Patrol"
Nov 83 - "Copper"
Live 84 versions/CTC - "Police"
The "July 84" version uses "Copper" again. It would seem unlikely that he would revert to this lyric change after performing it live for months one way and then go back to "police" by September. This leads credence to the idea that the "July 84" version is actually from sometime between August and November 83. Along with the "Where is England?" line at the end of it which was only ever used on the August 83 version.
It's a minor thing and one word is hardly definitive, but it would go a long way to explain the absence of Nick/Vince.
Great detective work, nice one.
There's a tiny, tiny hopeful part of me that says you guys are running a Kaufmanesque long con on the board
And who remembers "Flex" getting a credit on the TIBAD Legacy edition rather then Flea?
Yeah, I remember.
I had a lot to do with that album.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle - you can raise the dead
The whole song is brilliant, but the "British boots go kick Bengali in the head / police sit watching / newspapers being read / all deaf to protest / and after the attackers fled / out come the batons / and the biggest one then said / this is England" line is one of Joe's finest moments — immediately came to mind when the videos from yesterday's Proud Boys thing in New York started circulating on Twitter.
The whole song is brilliant, but the "British boots go kick Bengali in the head / police sit watching / newspapers being read / all deaf to protest / and after the attackers fled / out come the batons / and the biggest one then said / this is England" line is one of Joe's finest moments — immediately came to mind when the videos from yesterday's Proud Boys thing in New York started circulating on Twitter.
It reminds me of the police here back in the late 70s early 80s. I went on a few ANL marches that ended up clashing with the NF supporters. You be getting kicked to shit and the police would look the other way. In some cases they would even grab the guy who was getting the beating after he got away and continue the same treatment. I agree it's one of Joes best lyrics.
Forces have been looting
My humanity
Curfews have been curbing
The end of liberty
We're the flowers in the dustbin...
No fuchsias for you.