The US 2008 Election thread

[SteveSatch]

Moveon.org! Ha, next you'll link something to democraticunderground. Moonbats.

https://pol.moveon.org/donate/inyourhea ... uAh6_x&t=3

This should make everyone feel better.

[Flex]

Moveon.org! Ha, next you'll link something to democraticunderground. Moonbats.

Don't be dense. Phil Gramm's comments are well publicized in a number of mainstream media outlets, not just places like MoveOn.org. Way to tackle the issues though.

[revbob]

Moveon.org are a bunch of LIBERALS!

[Wolter]

Moveon.org! Ha, next you'll link something to democraticunderground. Moonbats.

Don't be dense. Phil Gramm's comments are well publicized in a number of mainstream media outlets, not just places like MoveOn.org. Way to tackle the issues though.

He's just longing for the sanity of Ayn Rand.

[revbob]

Moveon.org! Ha, next you'll link something to democraticunderground. Moonbats.

Don't be dense. Phil Gramm's comments are well publicized in a number of mainstream media outlets, not just places like MoveOn.org. Way to tackle the issues though.

He's just longing for the sanity of Ayn Rand.

Rush can help with that.

I didn't realize it was that same damn Cecil Turtle Phil Gramm, I'd been under the hopeful assumption that he was dead.

[Dr. Medulla]

Moveon.org! Ha, next you'll link something to democraticunderground. Moonbats.

Don't be dense. Phil Gramm's comments are well publicized in a number of mainstream media outlets, not just places like MoveOn.org. Way to tackle the issues though.

But by taking a clumsy shot at moveon, the veracity of Gramm's comments can dismissed without any effort, as if it's automatically a lie.

[classof77]

He's just longing for the sanity of Ayn Rand

O-la-la! Pop philosophy references make me tingle all over.

[Rat Patrol]

Not exactly helping McCain's age and generational out-of-touchness perception problems to have one of Congress' (long-retired) grumpiest old men running his campaign. Anyone who's listened to Gramm's perpetual "get off my goddamn lawn" act for the last 20 years had to have seen this type of flap coming a mile away. Even though Gramm was a pretty OK and principled (by lower-than-whale-shit modern Republican standards) Bob Dole-ish small-gov't conservative who looks better in retrospect the further the party debases itself...this is exactly the reason why he bombed with nil public support each time he dipped his own toe into Presidential waters. So, really, what was McCain thinking hiring a habitual killjoy to help craft an antidote to the Obama charm offensive? Underscores everything that's wrong with that campaign and why he can't get himself un-stuck.

I agree about the MoveOn story being a red herring. This blew up sky-high on the front page of CNN.com and other outlets when it happened, and didn't go away until McCain quickly cut the cord. Actually, conservatives (not singling you out, Steve...referring to the typical knee-jerk defense by the Fox-y-Freeper masses) trying to 'librul media' this thing under the carpet pulls them further off troubleshooting the real problem about how the McCain campaign's organizational bumbling is failing to make amends with his base while causing worrisome new slippage in the polls by the independents he traditionally did well in and absolutely can't win without. This is going to be his undoing through the summer if he can't make his braintrust less gaffe-prone or less a liability to the age/in-touch question.

[Dr. Medulla]

So, really, what was McCain thinking hiring a habitual killjoy to help craft an antidote to the Obama charm offensive? Underscores everything that's wrong with that campaign and why he can't get himself un-stuck.

Couldn't agree more. The real surprise thus far to me is how fucking bad a campaign McCain has run and how bad a candidate he's been. I don't know how much of it is that he's an old coot who'll say anything at this point to get elected and how much the GOP braintrust know that this election is a loser, so they aren't sending in their best and brightest. That this thing is as close as it is at this point is due to the easy handling McCain has gotten from the press. His blunders when talking about the Mideast—especially his ignorance of the difference between Sunnis and Shia—should have been enough to disqualify himself from serious consideration. Oh, right, Republicans are tough on terrorists.

[Flex]

Couldn't agree more. The real surprise thus far to me is how fucking bad a campaign McCain has run and how bad a candidate he's been. I don't know how much of it is that he's an old coot who'll say anything at this point to get elected and how much the GOP braintrust know that this election is a loser, so they aren't sending in their best and brightest. That this thing is as close as it is at this point is due to the easy handling McCain has gotten from the press. His blunders when talking about the Mideast—especially his ignorance of the difference between Sunnis and Shia—should have been enough to disqualify himself from serious consideration. Oh, right, Republicans are tough on terrorists.

Part of it is also that, despite whatever tremendously horrible blunders the republican party may have committed over the last 8 years, there's at least 45% of the population that are gonna vote "R" no matter what. Same is true with "D" voters. It's actually probably more than that in both cases, but I'm being generous in my estimate of folks' decision-making abilities. So, that leaves a relatively small number (my numbers here would put it at 10% but it's probably more like 3-4% tops) of folks who may actually be swayed by, well, anything I guess. Most are just gonna vote like zombies, regardless of situation or candidate.

[SteveSatch]

(not singling you out, Steve...referring to the typical knee-jerk defense by the Fox-y-Freeper masses)

No problem there as I'm not a conservative.

[SteveSatch]

You think the press is easy on McCain? The press is falling all over themselves trying to help Obama win. Obama is given softball after softball questions fromt he media. McCain corrected his Sunni/Shia error as soon as he said it. Obama certainly has more mideast errors-not going there until now, saying he'd talk to terrorist state leaders, saying he'd pull U.S. troops out now-which would make things worse, and then flip flopping and changing his pull them out now stance.

That this thing is as close as it is at this point is due to the easy handling McCain has gotten from the press. His blunders when talking about the Mideast—especially his ignorance of the difference between Sunnis and Shia—should have been enough to disqualify himself from serious consideration. Oh, right, Republicans are tough on terrorists.

[Dr. Medulla]

You think the press is easy on McCain? The press is falling all over themselves trying to help Obama win. Obama is given softball after softball questions fromt he media.

Just as a sample: http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/j ... in?f=h_hot

McCain corrected his Sunni/Shia error as soon as he said it.

Why did he make it in the first place? If he's going to present himself as a foreign policy expert, how come he regularly makes such dumb basic errors?

Obama certainly has more mideast errors-not going there until now, saying he'd talk to terrorist state leaders, saying he'd pull U.S. troops out now-which would make things worse

How are those errors? Those are positions. You might not agree with them but they aren't errors of fact.

[Flex]

Oh fine, I'll join in.

It's also worth noting that McCain didn't correct himself immediately - Joe Lieberman corrected him.

Addendum: Besides that, when on the High Hewitt show he made the same mistake but didn't correct himself - or have one of his lackey's correct him. http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradi ... ebb718bf32

[Flex]

In any case, we all know which candidate has the most substantive foreign policy plan: