Scottish independence?

Politics and other such topical creams.
Post Reply
muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4210
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Scottish independence?

Post by muppet hi fi » 09 Jul 2014, 10:31pm

Good thing? Bad thing? Neither here nor there thing?

biopunk
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 2666
Joined: 23 Aug 2009, 3:04am
Location: The Mountainous End of Canada

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by biopunk » 10 Jul 2014, 12:17am

muppet hi fi wrote:Good thing? Bad thing? Neither here nor there thing?
Good thing? Maybe if it had happened 25 years ago. :(

Bad thing? Absolutely. Scotland exports people for a reason. :cry:

Neither here nor there thing? Dinnae talk daft! <clutches saltire to breast and spouts off lines from Hollywood films> :disshame:
Chewing oot a rhythm on my bubblegum

muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4210
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by muppet hi fi » 10 Jul 2014, 12:29am

Bio - could you please elaborate a bit please? I posed this question on another music board and a nice guy from Philly started in on Northern Ireland. My point was maybe this sort of nationalism is out dated and potentially dangerous and not in the interests of average peeps. Palestine and Israel came up, naturally...
Anyway, are you an expat Jock? You seem to know your shit. I'd sincerely like to hear others' views on this, cause I really don't have a well formed opinion. I guess I think it's a bad idea in the 21st century...

Heston
User avatar
God of Thunder...and Rock 'n Roll
Posts: 26119
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 4:07pm
Location: North of Watford Junction
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Heston » 10 Jul 2014, 1:18am

Not until we get those bootlegs.
So what does Marconi playing the mamba mean? "Marconi" is referring to the radio itself. It plays a deadly snake. The snake - the mamba - is slithering from the speakers. Ready to kill greedy corporations. Ready to free the world of all that is evil, and to leave behind only the youthful idealism encompassed by the tenets of rock and roll.

biopunk
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 2666
Joined: 23 Aug 2009, 3:04am
Location: The Mountainous End of Canada

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by biopunk » 10 Jul 2014, 1:40am

muppet hi fi wrote:Bio - could you please elaborate a bit please? I posed this question on another music board and a nice guy from Philly started in on Northern Ireland. My point was maybe this sort of nationalism is out dated and potentially dangerous and not in the interests of average peeps. Palestine and Israel came up, naturally...
Anyway, are you an expat Jock? You seem to know your shit. I'd sincerely like to hear others' views on this, cause I really don't have a well formed opinion. I guess I think it's a bad idea in the 21st century...
Sure, Muppet! I'm a first generation Canadian of Caithness & Glaswegian parentage who met at Edinburgh university and emigrated shortly after. Most of my Scottish-born cousins are now working and living in England. My recently on-the-fence, ex-army, uncle who lives in Inverness, is now pro-indy, but he's retired and has no kids, unlike the rest of my tribe...

I think off-shore oil development was where it was at for economic independence in the 80's, and would have filled any coffers an independent Scotland would have had at the time. They don't have much of that any more, neither do they have the money to pay for the ageing infrastructure of the power-plants in an independent Scotland. How they expect to attract industry without solid infrastructure is beyond me. I just don't see that as sustaining a gross national product. I also expect they'll need to make huge tax concessions to corporations as was done in Ireland, and then compete with Ireland. Difference is, no one will be bailing them out in 10 years, like Ireland was. Add an ageing population to support, and kiss any pretence of social stability away.

I've been thinking about the Protestant/Catholic thing lately ('Tis the season... :( ), and yeah, I can see that going off again, as there are still distinct Cath/Prod areas in the cities that will be competing for these imagined jobs that independence will magically allow for, and I don't see that history not repeating itself. The usual have/have-nots, city/rural, lowland/teuchter divides will still be there.

I probably feel the same way about the nationalism. I find the pro-side have some of the most ignorant, rah-rah, pie-in-the-sky arguments because they like to pretend they are somehow different than everybody else, and deserve better because they were born above some imaginary line. Kind of like the Québécois seperatistes here in Canada.
Chewing oot a rhythm on my bubblegum

biopunk
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 2666
Joined: 23 Aug 2009, 3:04am
Location: The Mountainous End of Canada

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by biopunk » 10 Jul 2014, 1:40am

Heston wrote:Not until we get those bootlegs.
:D
Chewing oot a rhythm on my bubblegum

Rat Patrol
User avatar
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 14581
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 9:23pm
Location: A flat burning junkheap for twenty square miles

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Rat Patrol » 10 Jul 2014, 5:25am

The "sheep are ⅗ human" clause in the proposed constitution will tear the country apart. :ohboy:
Image

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 12601
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Silent Majority » 10 Jul 2014, 6:05am

For selfish reasons, like ease of holidaying, and potentially spending my entire forties stumbling around Govan, I'd like Scotland to stay in the United Kingdom. If the majority of the people who live there want self-determination, then I applaud any further dismantling of the moribund British empire.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Wolter
User avatar
Half Foghorn Leghorn, Half Woody Allen
Posts: 49239
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:59pm
Location: ¡HOLIDAY RO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OAD!
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Wolter » 10 Jul 2014, 8:26am

Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
"There's something more honest, he believed, about traditional methods of mass starvation, labour camps, and machine gunning millions to death. Stalin was a vinyl guy who sneered at Truman converting everything to compact disc." - Thomas Jefferson

"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71164
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Jul 2014, 8:52am

Edmund Ruffin wrote:Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
Image
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Wolter
User avatar
Half Foghorn Leghorn, Half Woody Allen
Posts: 49239
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:59pm
Location: ¡HOLIDAY RO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OAD!
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Wolter » 10 Jul 2014, 1:30pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Edmund Ruffin wrote:Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
Image
You have to admit, he was one handsome fanatical racist.
"There's something more honest, he believed, about traditional methods of mass starvation, labour camps, and machine gunning millions to death. Stalin was a vinyl guy who sneered at Truman converting everything to compact disc." - Thomas Jefferson

"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"

Silent Majority
User avatar
Singer-Songwriter Nancy
Posts: 12601
Joined: 10 Nov 2008, 8:28pm
Location: A republic of mind
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Silent Majority » 10 Jul 2014, 1:36pm

Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Edmund Ruffin wrote:Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
Image
You have to admit, he was one handsome fanatical racist.
He looks like that suave grey haired business guy who always turned out to be the murderer in the TV movie of the week. You know the one I mean. I feel like his name was George or something.

edit: George Hamilton!
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

www.pexlives.libsyn.com/

Dr. Medulla
User avatar
Atheistic Epileptic
Posts: 71164
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 2:00pm
Location: Nerdo Crombezia
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Dr. Medulla » 10 Jul 2014, 2:10pm

Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Edmund Ruffin wrote:Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
Image
You have to admit, he was one handsome fanatical racist.
Plus he had the commitment to blow his head off rather than accept the defeat of Southern independence (better yet, he fucked up the first time and immediately reloaded and got it right the second). Unlike pussies like Jeff Davis, who advocated reconciliation after the war.

edit: My recollection is that Eric Walther's book The Fire-Eaters is quite a decent account of the full and proper nuts of the pre-Confederacy.

And there's even a scanned copy available: http://bookfi.org/dl/1312642/f15083
Walrus birth doesn't make good breakfast conversation!

Wolter
User avatar
Half Foghorn Leghorn, Half Woody Allen
Posts: 49239
Joined: 15 Jun 2008, 7:59pm
Location: ¡HOLIDAY RO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-OAD!
Contact:

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by Wolter » 10 Jul 2014, 2:52pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Wolter wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Edmund Ruffin wrote:Secession is wrong unless the gummint is taking your slaves.
Image
You have to admit, he was one handsome fanatical racist.
Plus he had the commitment to blow his head off rather than accept the defeat of Southern independence (better yet, he fucked up the first time and immediately reloaded and got it right the second). Unlike pussies like Jeff Davis, who advocated reconciliation after the war.

edit: My recollection is that Eric Walther's book The Fire-Eaters is quite a decent account of the full and proper nuts of the pre-Confederacy.

And there's even a scanned copy available: http://bookfi.org/dl/1312642/f15083
Sweeeeeeet.
"There's something more honest, he believed, about traditional methods of mass starvation, labour camps, and machine gunning millions to death. Stalin was a vinyl guy who sneered at Truman converting everything to compact disc." - Thomas Jefferson

"But the gorilla thinks otherwise!"

muppet hi fi
Unknown Immortal
Posts: 4210
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 1:10pm

Re: Scottish independence?

Post by muppet hi fi » 11 Jul 2014, 12:35am

biopunk wrote:
muppet hi fi wrote:Bio - could you please elaborate a bit please? I posed this question on another music board and a nice guy from Philly started in on Northern Ireland. My point was maybe this sort of nationalism is out dated and potentially dangerous and not in the interests of average peeps. Palestine and Israel came up, naturally...
Anyway, are you an expat Jock? You seem to know your shit. I'd sincerely like to hear others' views on this, cause I really don't have a well formed opinion. I guess I think it's a bad idea in the 21st century...
Sure, Muppet! I'm a first generation Canadian of Caithness & Glaswegian parentage who met at Edinburgh university and emigrated shortly after. Most of my Scottish-born cousins are now working and living in England. My recently on-the-fence, ex-army, uncle who lives in Inverness, is now pro-indy, but he's retired and has no kids, unlike the rest of my tribe...

I think off-shore oil development was where it was at for economic independence in the 80's, and would have filled any coffers an independent Scotland would have had at the time. They don't have much of that any more, neither do they have the money to pay for the ageing infrastructure of the power-plants in an independent Scotland. How they expect to attract industry without solid infrastructure is beyond me. I just don't see that as sustaining a gross national product. I also expect they'll need to make huge tax concessions to corporations as was done in Ireland, and then compete with Ireland. Difference is, no one will be bailing them out in 10 years, like Ireland was. Add an ageing population to support, and kiss any pretence of social stability away.

I've been thinking about the Protestant/Catholic thing lately ('Tis the season... :( ), and yeah, I can see that going off again, as there are still distinct Cath/Prod areas in the cities that will be competing for these imagined jobs that independence will magically allow for, and I don't see that history not repeating itself. The usual have/have-nots, city/rural, lowland/teuchter divides will still be there.

I probably feel the same way about the nationalism. I find the pro-side have some of the most ignorant, rah-rah, pie-in-the-sky arguments because they like to pretend they are somehow different than everybody else, and deserve better because they were born above some imaginary line. Kind of like the Québécois seperatistes here in Canada.
Thanks Bio, I appreciate your considered response. As I said, I was asking about this on another music related board with some smart peeps (plenty of Brits/Irishers/Euros), and one comment I heard a lot was that many of the pro-Indy peeps up north tended to be real...well, dummies. Lots of playing on emotion and national/cultural identity and that, at the expense of serious consideration/discussion of the long term ramifications of independence. Like I said, I've no firm opinion yet, but cheers for giving me some insight mate.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests