9-11

[eumaas]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7613575.stm

This isn't really compatible with the secular West.

Keeping in mind that, officially, Saudi Arabia is allied with the US in the war on terror. Sometimes radical Muslims are acceptable to American policy …

It's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys without a Fox News/Weekly Standard scorecard letting us know who's been bribed into compliance this week.

Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

B-but but... FREEDOM!! AMERICA!


Anyone who doesn't distrust Authority is an idiot. I used to find some allies among conservatives, but after 9/11 they're all lockstep with the Federal government. It's a fucking shame.

[IkarisOne]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7613575.stm

This isn't really compatible with the secular West.

Keeping in mind that, officially, Saudi Arabia is allied with the US in the war on terror. Sometimes radical Muslims are acceptable to American policy …

It's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys without a Fox News/Weekly Standard scorecard letting us know who's been bribed into compliance this week.

Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

To quote the great Calvin Morris, "A savage game of chess they play, with you and I as their disposable pieces."

[SteveSatch]

[Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam. There's nothing absurd about claiming moral superiority over a religion based on hate, terror, and oppression. I also do condem those who partner up with radical Islam. I don't need to post anti American thoughts here, it's done to death by you lot. No one starts threads pointing out other injustices though. The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap. People assume quite a bit about my other beliefs that simply arent true. I have very (as much as one can have in the modern age) isolationist foreign policy beliefs.

[IkarisOne]

Well, this horror is quite timely: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7614280.stm

Steve is dead right that Islamic militants are the scum of the earth. However, he might want to consider that a lot of people in power use them to justify their own tactics and agendas.

[IkarisOne]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7613575.stm

This isn't really compatible with the secular West.

Keeping in mind that, officially, Saudi Arabia is allied with the US in the war on terror. Sometimes radical Muslims are acceptable to American policy …

It's hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys without a Fox News/Weekly Standard scorecard letting us know who's been bribed into compliance this week.

Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

B-but but... FREEDOM!! AMERICA!


Anyone who doesn't distrust Authority is an idiot. I used to find some allies among conservatives, but after 9/11 they're all lockstep with the Federal government. It's a fucking shame.

No way, Gene. Republicans are certainly lockstep, but it's the real conservatives who've been sounding the alarms about imperial overreach post-9/11. You can agree or disagree with conservatives, but don't lump them in with boot-licking coward Republicans, who are only conservative when it's convenient. Look at the massive metastasis of the Federal gov't the past 8 years- that's Republican, and not even remotely conservative.

[Dr. Medulla]

I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam. There's nothing absurd about claiming moral superiority over a religion based on hate, terror, and oppression.

Wow, that take's a lot of guts to post such a radical opinion. Let me make sure I understand you: you're opposed to religious fundamentalism that uses extreme violence. Holy shit. I hope you don't say stuff like that outside message boards. I mean, it could alienate family, friends, and co-workers if you actually voiced that out loud. Religious nuts who kill are bad. How do you feel about people who kick puppies? How about tripping old people?

I also do condem those who partner up with radical Islam.

Out of curiosity, specifically who would you call out in your bold condemnation?

I don't need to post anti American thoughts here, it's done to death by you lot. No one starts threads pointing out other injustices though. The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap.

And what an amazing job you've done of exposing the board to "something other than anti American crap." Let's see. Um. Well. Oh, right: radical Islamic terrorism is bad. I don't think that's ever come up.

[Dr. Medulla]

Anyone who doesn't distrust Authority is an idiot. I used to find some allies among conservatives, but after 9/11 they're all lockstep with the Federal government. It's a fucking shame.

No way, Gene. Republicans are certainly lockstep, but it's the real conservatives who've been sounding the alarms about imperial overreach post-9/11. You can agree or disagree with conservatives, but don't lump them in with boot-licking coward Republicans, who are only conservative when it's convenient. Look at the massive metastasis of the Federal gov't the past 8 years- that's Republican, and not even remotely conservative.

Doesn't that, again, speak to how gutted spectrum terminology has become? I've brought up the volokh.com several times because it amazes me at the apparent disintegration of conservatism. Volokh is an academic (mostly legal) libertarian blog, yet people are falling over themselves to pump McCain and Palin as true conservative heroes who are the only wall against the radical Marxists, Obama and Biden (I'm not exaggerating here). If these self-proclaimed libertarians are lockstep with the Republican narrative, where are the true conservatives? There's a handful of people of conservative pedigree—John Dean and Craig Paul Roberts come to mind—who speak out against what the authoritarian Republicans are doing, but for the most part they're just throwing in with the thugs. Fear of finding common cause with so-called liberals? Blind faith that sooner or later the Republicans will finally go libertarian? I dunno.

[IkarisOne]

Anyone who doesn't distrust Authority is an idiot. I used to find some allies among conservatives, but after 9/11 they're all lockstep with the Federal government. It's a fucking shame.

No way, Gene. Republicans are certainly lockstep, but it's the real conservatives who've been sounding the alarms about imperial overreach post-9/11. You can agree or disagree with conservatives, but don't lump them in with boot-licking coward Republicans, who are only conservative when it's convenient. Look at the massive metastasis of the Federal gov't the past 8 years- that's Republican, and not even remotely conservative.

Doesn't that, again, speak to how gutted spectrum terminology has become? I've brought up the volokh.com several times because it amazes me at the apparent disintegration of conservatism. Volokh is an academic (mostly legal) libertarian blog, yet people are falling over themselves to pump McCain and Palin as true conservative heroes who are the only wall against the radical Marxists, Obama and Biden (I'm not exaggerating here). If these self-proclaimed libertarians are lockstep with the Republican narrative, where are the true conservatives? There's a handful of people of conservative pedigree—John Dean and Craig Paul Roberts come to mind—who speak out against what the authoritarian Republicans are doing, but for the most part they're just throwing in with the thugs. Fear of finding common cause with so-called liberals? Blind faith that sooner or later the Republicans will finally go libertarian? I dunno.

I totally get where you're coming from. People of all stripes tend to lose it when the black magicians of electoral politics unleash their wicked mojo every 4 years. It's very powerful stuff. All of these idiots forget they hated McCain up until a few weeks ago. Which is why I decided not to vote anymore. If you don't have a horse in the race you don't have to surrender your principles just so your side wins.

[Rat Patrol]

Republicans are certainly lockstep, but it's the real conservatives who've been sounding the alarms about imperial overreach post-9/11. You can agree or disagree with conservatives, but don't lump them in with boot-licking coward Republicans, who are only conservative when it's convenient. Look at the massive metastasis of the Federal gov't the past 8 years- that's Republican, and not even remotely conservative.

THIS.

Republicans ≠ conservatives. It's been over a decade since that was even remotely true, and real conservatism has been on the wane since the 60's. Both parties used to have an ideological spread of sorts. If anything, conservatism is an extremely silent and ineffective bloc of the Democratic party now...what little of it hasn't gone into total hibernation or extinction. Small-gov't, slightly libertarian bent, states rights, hands-off economic policy, stodgier values but generally look the other way on regulating the lives of people not like them. Exactly who does that even describe anymore? Has that even been an extant half of the opposing political spectrum since the New Deal was active and before EVERYONE started feeding from the trough of the military-industrial complex? Conservatism is historical. It's not present in politics. Illiberal is more like it...and that doesn't solve the problem that true liberalism is dead too and replaced by I-don't-quite-know-what-and-neither-do-the-Democrats.

The Republicans are something else entirely...reactionary, yes. And philosophically aligned in a much scarier and more radical place than what we even traditionally associate the radical left with. I'll leave it to someone else to define that since I'm not much fascinated with theory. But it's not like the political spectrum is extremes on a straight line. It's extremes on a curved line that peels back on itself...a broken circle. Radical left and radical right sit right next to each other. They unite at a gap in the circle that's only tenuously broken. When opposition to the right is defined as polarized left, it's self-serving because they ARE the same thing. Framing politics in that context does make it a choice between sames at the extreme. It was shaped that way by design. And the way the party affiliations are broken with true conservatism and true liberalism being virtually extinct, pretty much either choice does border on the extremes of that not-quite-closed circle.

[101Walterton]

[Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam. There's nothing absurd about claiming moral superiority over a religion based on hate, terror, and oppression. I also do condem those who partner up with radical Islam. I don't need to post anti American thoughts here, it's done to death by you lot. No one starts threads pointing out other injustices though. The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap. People assume quite a bit about my other beliefs that simply arent true. I have very (as much as one can have in the modern age) isolationist foreign policy beliefs.

I take it that was aimed at me. "I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam" - as they do over you.

[Marky Dread]

"The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap".

Over exposure bores the daylight outta me.

...Big targets are hard to miss!

[Dr. Medulla]

[Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam. There's nothing absurd about claiming moral superiority over a religion based on hate, terror, and oppression. I also do condem those who partner up with radical Islam. I don't need to post anti American thoughts here, it's done to death by you lot. No one starts threads pointing out other injustices though. The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap. People assume quite a bit about my other beliefs that simply arent true. I have very (as much as one can have in the modern age) isolationist foreign policy beliefs.

I take it that was aimed at me.

Don't be such a credit hog—it was aimed at everyone in the Anti-American Post Count Whore Clique. BTW, pay your dues—and not in that loopy Kiwi money.

[Flex]

Don't be such a credit hog—it was aimed at everyone in the Anti-American Post Count Whore Clique. BTW, pay your dues—and not in that loopy Kiwi money.

Am I a member? Because I always thought I loved America and its culture (even if we fought sometimes... or, often) . But, I guess I'm anti-American. Guess I'll go speak Spanish as my primary language, burn some flags, and pray towards Mecca a bunch of times!

[101Walterton]

[Which is the whole point about the absurdity of staking some claim of unambiguous moral superiority over those religious fanatics. If a person—not talking about you, Chris—is going to damn all Islam or even just radical Islam, you're going to have to condemn your own government and big business for partnering up with those same governments and groups.

I do claim a moral superiority over radical Islam. There's nothing absurd about claiming moral superiority over a religion based on hate, terror, and oppression. I also do condem those who partner up with radical Islam. I don't need to post anti American thoughts here, it's done to death by you lot. No one starts threads pointing out other injustices though. The anti American post count whore clique needs to be exposed to something other than anti American crap. People assume quite a bit about my other beliefs that simply arent true. I have very (as much as one can have in the modern age) isolationist foreign policy beliefs.

I take it that was aimed at me.

Don't be such a credit hog—it was aimed at everyone in the Anti-American Post Count Whore Clique. BTW, pay your dues—and not in that loopy Kiwi money.

Hey the Kiwi dollar was worth a bit for a while we just need to sell more lamb chops in China. Did you know we have to pay the same for our dairy products as the overseas buyers !!!!.
Anyway Im not anti American I'm anti Redneck, arrogant,, narrow minded Xenophobia by any race or religion including Americans and radical Muslims.

[Dr. Medulla]

Am I a member? Because I always thought I loved America and its culture (even if we fought sometimes... or, often) . But, I guess I'm anti-American. Guess I'll go speak Spanish as my primary language, burn some flags, and pray towards Mecca a bunch of times!

The whole anti-American thing depends on the president. It wasn't anti-American to criticize Clinton's foreign policy and I'm sure it'll be equally loyal to criticize Obama's, should he win. Weird. Like how the north and south pole just flip polarities suddenly throughout earth's history.

Hey the Kiwi dollar was worth a bit for a while we just need to sell more lamb chops in China. Did you know we have to pay the same for our dairy products as the overseas buyers !!!!.

I need Olaf here—I'm at a loss for a sheep joke. You win this one …

Anyway Im not anti American I'm anti Redneck, arrogant,, narrow minded Xenophobia by any race or religion including Americans and radical Muslims.

Which is, I would hazard to guess, the position of all the Anti-American Post Count Whore Clique. Given how many of my friends are American and how much I (mostly) enjoyed living down there, it's odd being called anti-American. By the same criteria, I must also be anti-Canadian, anti-Saskatchewan, and anti-Saskatoon.