Did man land on the moon?

[Mash]

YES, THERE IS A FUCKING FACE ON MARS!!!!!

And bigfoot.

I believe that!

[MadModWorld]

Of course. We know Major Tom's a junkie.

Oh no, don't say its true!

Oh yeah: I have a message from the Action Man: "I'm Happy, Hope You're Happy, Too."

Sordid details following?

[eumaas]

have there ever been any horror films about the moonlanding? i have a faint memory of one but it may have been a childhood dream

Are you thinking about Capricorn One? Not horror, but it's on topic.

edit: Just saw your response. Are you thinking of Space 1999?

definitely not--much more poorly lit

maybe it was a mars movie?

[Dr. Medulla]

Anyone remember the Six Million Dollar Man episode (two parter, I think) where the moon is pulled out of its orbit, fucking with the earth's weather? Luckily that guy with the crosshairs in his right eye was available.

[dpwolf]

Everything has been pretty much up-front in these examples you gave. It's not a shadowy backroom conspiracy, all these things happened in front of our eyes. Most of those involved don't even really deny it... they just don't care.

Maybe they don't need shadowy back room conspiracies anymore because we don't do anything about our suspicions anyhow. Maybe they've won that war. If they can pull off something like faking a lunar landing or killing a favorite President, merely entering into yet other a war (sorry, police action) isn't worth an old school cover up. They and we are the new dumb, as H.S. Thompson termed it. Many think there was more to JFK's assassination than the magic bullet, but who cares. Those who do must be crazy, right? or if not they can't and won't do anything anyhow and the end justifies the means. Even smart people will believe the story and those who don't probably believe in bigfoot on Mars, so are easily dismissed, even by their peers. Most know the administration exaggerated the Iraq threat and connection to 9-11 just so they and their contractor buddies could make money, but again who cares? All's well that ends well. Bush will leave office quietly and with lots of money, forgiven of his sins and pushing the resulting ruin on the next president. After all, Bush and Dick both have said repeatedly that they don't care what the people think - it simply doesn't matter - and they are right. Oh yeah and Obama might get assassinated. Some think he probably will. Bummer. If it happens I'm sure it will be some solo jerk rather than an inside job. [:shifty:]

Again, if you're going to put forth a conspiracy, you have to account for the actions and motives of all the conspirators, both active and passive.

Wow, that's quite a burden. But anyway I won't be putting forth or support conspiracies here any more. Maybe someone else will, but if not that's okay. I don't like being the sole defender of these theories. Plus in my excitement I forgot that no conspiracy supporting, along with no changing avatars, were my two "what will I do if IMCT is reborn" resolutions.

[Dr. Medulla]

Again, if you're going to put forth a conspiracy, you have to account for the actions and motives of all the conspirators, both active and passive.

Wow, that's quite a burden.

It is and it isn't. I'm not saying you have to account for each individual, but you do need to account for the actions and motives of those who would possess the data to expose the original fraud, but choose to remain silent even tho it would seem against their interests to do so.

But anyway I won't be putting forth or support conspiracies here any more. Maybe someone else will, but if not that's okay. I don't like being the sole defender of these theories.

Some conspiracy theories are more seaworthy than others. Dallas is definitely one. Robert Kennedy's assassination is another one that doesn't smell quite right, tho the alternate theories haven't been overly plausible to me any more than the official explanation.

[dpwolf]

the alternate theories haven't been overly plausible to me any more than the official explanation

It's the opposite that rubs me. If neither explanation convinces convincingly, why pick one over the other? I choose the other by default - even if just for the sake of argument - - simply because I don't trust the government version. Ever. They always hide something, since the 60s. If the government can lie and cover up something like JFK's assassination, including as to all the various active and passive players involved, as you say, which seems to be at least partially true, why not other assassinations, government manipulations and the lunar landing as well? After all, we haven't been exactly diligent about visiting again or setting up any kind of base or facility there, although that would seem in our best interest. The Soviets thought it impossible at the time, I thought, or at least they didn't follow up and do it themselves. Why not? If the race was that hot it doesn't make sense for them to just give up and continue beating lesser records by placing more people and women in the upper atmosphere or whatever. Why wouldn't they want their flag up on the moon. or more people. or for a longer time. I guess I'm just not willing to dismiss the idea that it was a lie and cover up. I won't say I absolutely do or don't believe, but if someone manages to prove they filmed that stuff at Area 51 I wouldn't be all that shocked. At that point we might even see straight forward conclusions from the Soviets in 1968-9 which basically called the US liars, which were not previously available. How about 9-11? Didn't the CIA circulate some sort of plan which involved an attack on our own buildings with commercial airlines and blame terrorists as a scenario to justify war against Iraq. If something similar happens and we attack Iran, will we just go along and think there was no involvement from our own government? I bet yes, because I suppose we don't like to think anyone is that evil. But take a good look at the U.S. President, his Dick and their friends. Are these people the kind we should trust or question?

[Dr. Medulla]

the alternate theories haven't been overly plausible to me any more than the official explanation

It's the opposite that rubs me. If neither explanation convinces convincingly, why pick one over the other? I choose the other by default - even if just for the sake of argument - with you - simply because I don't trust the government version. Ever.

Two things: why do you assume I'm picking one? I find the official explanation of what happened at the Ambassador somewhat wanting and I find the alternate theories wanting. As such, I haven't picked any—I'm waiting for something that satisfies the evidence to my judgement. Second, picking the conspiracy side by default seems as dogmatic as always believing the government. Kneejerk responses don't tend to lend themselves to insight. Just because the govt has lied and been engaged in shady activity in the past doesn't mean its involved in every shady activity or that all its activities are shady; likewise, just because some govt actions are upfront doesn't mean it hasn't been involved with more sinister plots.

If the government can lie and cover up something like JFK's assassination, including as to all the various active and passive players involved, as you say, which seems to be at least partially true, why not other assassinations, government manipulations and the lunar landing as well?

There have been other conspiracies, without a doubt. But that doesn't mean that everything is a conspiracy. It's about looking for likely candidates and whether the available evidence is positively suggestive. Why did Cut the Crap suck? Well, if The Government could kill Kennedy, it could make CtC suck, couldn't it? Should I assume that every sports championship has been fixed just because two Kennedys were killed? Shouldn't the sensible default be to assume it's all fixed? Shouldn't we assume that IMCT went down in May because of a conspiracy?

The Soviets thought it impossible at the time, I thought, or at least they didn't follow up and do it themselves. Why not? If the race was that hot it doesn't make sense for them to just give up and continue beating lesser records by placing more people and women in the upper atmosphere or whatever. Why wouldn't they want their flag up on the moon. or more people. or for a longer time.

No idea—I've never read anything about the politics of the Soviet space agency beyond the initial Sputnik launches. All kinds of non-sinister reasons for not pursuing it—e.g., no longer a propaganda prize, lack of technical expertise, political directives, interest in other projects like a space station—that it seems odd to default to the sinister explanation, especially when no one can posit a rationale for the Soviets keeping silent. Unless there's compelling evidence that there are mysterious forces controlling a majority of things in the world, I see no reason to search for a master planner.

I won't say I absolutely do or don't believe, but if someone manages to prove they filmed that stuff at Area 51 I wouldn't be all that shocked. At that point we might even see straight forward conclusions from the Soviets in 1968-9 which basically called the US liars, which were not previously available.

What do mean previously unavailable? Who made them unavailable? If the Soviets had evidence that the whole thing was bullshit, who could prevent them from calling the US out on it?

How about 9-11? Didn't the CIA circulate some sort of plan which involved an attack on our own buildings with commercial airlines and blame terrorists as a scenario to justify war against Iraq. If something similar happens and we attack Iran, will we just go along and think there was no involvement from our own government? I bet yes, because I suppose we don't like to think anyone is that evil. But take a good look at the U.S. President, his Dick and their friends. Are these people the kind we should trust or question?

Apples and oranges. You're talking about the group that wants to manufacture an incident. I'm talking about all the other actors who would have no reason to agree to continue the conspiracy but apparently go against their interests and do so. It's relatively easy to conduct a fraud; the hard part is covering it up, increasingly so as the number of participants, before, during, and after the act, grows.

[Marky Dread]

No don't think so, anyway David Niven says The Moon's A Balloon.

[Marky Dread]

Anyone been to the darkside?

[Purple Hayes]

Anyone been to the darkside?

Nope, never been tempted to support Man U..and Niven's talking out of his arse, everyone knows the Moon is made of Cheese

[Marky Dread]

your'e already on the Darkside my friend good luck with "Wooden leg" Scolari.

[Marky Dread]

Did someone mention cheese?

[Purple Hayes]

your'e already on the Darkside my friend good luck with "Wooden leg" Scolari.

He's got the Chelsea Job, he'll punch you in the Gob..

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hezzTGkloJY

Crap punch though, hope he puts a little more weight behind it when he clocks the Fergler...

[Marky Dread]

your'e already on the Darkside my friend good luck with "Wooden leg" Scolari.

He's got the Chelsea Job, he'll punch you in the Gob..

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hezzTGkloJY

Crap punch though, hope he puts a little more weight behind it when he clocks the Fergler...

There's gonna be a showdown, looking forward to that one!