Fuckin' Anarshits

Politics and other such topical creams.
eumaas
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Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by eumaas » 20 Jan 2012, 4:35pm

"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

Chuck Mangione
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 20 Jan 2012, 4:40pm

"Direct democracy" is where it's at..

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Marky Dread » 21 Jan 2012, 2:20am

You can get cheaper milk at the Co-operative.
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Chuck Mangione
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Jan 2012, 1:49pm

So how many anarchists, or people at least interested in anarchy and its politics, do we actually have here on the board?

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jan 2012, 1:59pm

I'm not theoretically well-versed like eumaas, Flex, or Wolter (I expect to do more reading on that front this summer), but I consider myself one (albeit with neoliberal-paleoconservative-cryptofascist tendencies). I'm also a pacifist. When I joined the board, I was a cynical social democrat, but conversations with those three guys moved me towards philosophical anarchism.
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jan 2012, 2:26pm

I'm essentially politically illiterate, but I have very, very strong anarchist leanings based on my small understanding. Reading the works of Flex, eumaas et al, slowly moved me towards that and away from the Billy Bragg-esque old Labour supporter that first registered at Satch's back in aught-six. Politicians are, to a man, liars, whores, and crooks. They've got no more right to make decisions than I or my peers, and have shown themselves to be unconcerned with the little things I care about, like the slaughter of innocents.
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Jan 2012, 2:32pm

I'd consider myself more of an autonomous individualist more than an anarchist.

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jan 2012, 2:50pm

I don't know what that means.
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Jan 2012, 2:51pm

Self-governing, I guess. But not as assholeish as your typical cartoon anarchist.

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Wolter » 21 Jan 2012, 2:54pm

By cartoon, you mean the ones with the beards and the big round bombs?
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eumaas
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by eumaas » 21 Jan 2012, 3:03pm

I'm an anarcho-pacifist. I usually identify with the tradition of Kenneth Rexroth, Colin Ward, Herbert Read, Alex Comfort, George Woodcock, and Paul Goodman. All but Ward were pacifists and poets, and they all come out of a particular reading of Kropotkin. I have all the usual anarchist influences like Bakunin, Kropotkin, Goldman, Berkman, Malatesta etc, but those six individuals above are much nearer my emphasis. I'm quite fond of David Graeber as well, and I recommend his book Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology.

I believe that property belongs, or should belong, to those who use it or occupy it, which is called usufruct. I also believe that relationships of command are immoral. If you're commanding someone, then you're not treating that individual as a person, and that in turn is disrespecting your own humanity. It's what Buber called the I-It.

On a more hard-nosed point, I don't think you can trust people with extraordinary power. They'll abuse it, even if they're good people. Of course, power will also attract lots of bad people. I think the best strategy for ensuring social cooperation is to disperse power, to break up concentrations of power. I've heard that idea called "mutual disarmament." Edward Abbey said anarchism "is not a romantic fable but the hardheaded realization, based on five thousand years of experience, that we cannot entrust the management of our lives to kings, priests, politicians, generals, and county commissioners," and that it's "founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others."

I also think the philosophical cases made for the State are laughably bad. Few people actually sit down and read the justifications made for the State. Most of the arguments are either circular or plain absurd. I've yet to see a good moral or philosophical argument for the State. If anyone wants to raise one, go right ahead.

There are also good empirical reasons to think the State does more harm than good. As Howard Zinn said, "Historically, the most terrible things—war, genocide, and slavery—have resulted not from disobedience, but from obedience."

(a somewhat jargony aside: I have American individualist antecedents and influences too, of course: from Jefferson, Paine, and the Anti-Federalists to Emerson, Thoreau, and Garrison to Josiah Warren, Stephen Pearl Andrews, William Batchelder Greene, Lysander Spooner, Ezra Haywood, Benjamin Tucker, Dyer Lum, and Voltairine de Cleyre. I think Albert Jay Nock and H. L. Mencken had worthwhile things to say as well. I tend to think the individualist/communist split is more illusory than real, but I am not an anarcho-capitalist--I like two, maybe three essays by Rothbard, but the rest of his work is horseshit, and some of it racist. I think Kevin Carson is a great theorist, and that Roderick Long is a humane man--and I'm friends with Gary Chartier--but I wouldn't identify as a market anarchist. Not because I don't read in market anarchism, but because I don't insist on any one economic form. I agree with Rexroth that mutualism is a kind of communalism. So long as property is usufruct, and there are no relationships of command, I don't really care if you organize as a gift economy or on the basis of labor notes and time stores.)

EDIT: oh, and on the empirical end, I also think there's good reason to believe that any large, hierarchical organization (state or corporation) will suffer from serious perversities in incentives and information flow. Kevin Carson has a whole book on the subject.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

eumaas
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by eumaas » 21 Jan 2012, 4:04pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:Self-governing, I guess. But not as assholeish as your typical cartoon anarchist.
Elaborate?
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Jan 2012, 4:39pm

I.e. the "punx" anarchists.

eumaas
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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by eumaas » 21 Jan 2012, 4:40pm

Chuck Mangione wrote:I.e. the "punx" anarchists.
I meant elaborate on your views.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: Fuckin' Anarshits

Post by Chuck Mangione » 21 Jan 2012, 4:44pm

I don't like presidents or preaching authoritarians, I like myself telling me what to do. Try to stay away from cops, don't believe the media. Question authority, blah, bla blah...

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