always on my mind

Politics and other such topical creams.
dpwolf
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Re: always on my mind

Post by dpwolf »

Thanks for discussing Flex.
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Re: always on my mind

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dpwolf wrote:Thanks for discussing Flex.
Any time, dp :kiss:
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Re: always on my mind

Post by Wolter »

I feel ashamed that I haven't been following this at all. At the risk of sounding like the dumbest American stereotype of all time, the part of my brain that usually cares about politics and human rights has apparently been diverted entirely to baseball this summer.

Which leads me to believe my leftist ideals are apparently predicated by my team sucking most of the time.
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Re: always on my mind

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I think Russia is marginally more in the right on this versus the US in Iraq, but the only positive aspect of this whole affair is counterpower--the US is being checked and I believe that to ultimately be a good thing so long as it continues to be a balance of give and take.

Also, a new cold war would be wicked cool and sexy.
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Re: always on my mind

Post by Dr. Medulla »

eumaas wrote:I think Russia is marginally more in the right on this versus the US in Iraq
Admittedly, it's too soon to tell the ramifications, but initially I'd say it's not even marginal. What the US did in Iraq is completely upset the balance of power in the region and validate the position of religious extremists. Whether there's any significant spillover from Georgia remains to be seen, but doesn't seem as likely to match Iraq.
but the only positive aspect of this whole affair is counterpower--the US is being checked and I believe that to ultimately be a good thing so long as it continues to be a balance of give and take.
Yeah, I'd agree that events that challenge American influence around the world is, in most cases, a very good thing.
Also, a new cold war would be wicked cool and sexy.
Might make Bond a relevant hero again.
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Re: always on my mind

Post by esmark »

Flex wrote: The U.S. position has been wrong in both Iraq and the Georgia/Russia conflict. Devastatingly wrong on Iraq, a little less devastating but still pretty wrong on Georgia.
Really????????? Wonder when that gnome in the white house will realize that...

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Re: always on my mind

Post by dpwolf »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:I think Russia is marginally more in the right on this versus the US in Iraq
Admittedly, it's too soon to tell the ramifications, but initially I'd say it's not even marginal. What the US did in Iraq is completely upset the balance of power in the region and validate the position of religious extremists. Whether there's any significant spillover from Georgia remains to be seen, but doesn't seem as likely to match Iraq.
Dr. Medulla wrote:
eumaas wrote:but the only positive aspect of this whole affair is counterpower--the US is being checked and I believe that to ultimately be a good thing so long as it continues to be a balance of give and take.
Yeah, I'd agree that events that challenge American influence around the world is, in most cases, a very good thing.
I agree, but after thinking and going back and forth with Flex one of the conclusions I reached is that such comparisons (Iraq and Georgia) and resulting justifications aren't warranted. Two wrongs don't make a right. Georgia is a sovereign nation and therefore shouldn't have been invaded, just as Russia shouldn't have been supporting separatists within Georgia's borders (and just as the U.S. shouldn't have invaded Iraq). Them are the rules. On the other hand, borders and merely lines in the sand and one wonders which is being more moral and if judgment shouldn't be rendered based solely upon those grounds. The real question should be who is trying to kill people and whether they should be stopped. If Georgia is (was) truly doing a sweep to kill everyone in S. Ossetia who wanted to separate and become Russians, then perhaps Russia should have stepped in and put a stop to it, help out. Then again, and even if Russia is doing the right thing in Georgia, this might be the first of several such expansions we see from Russia in the upcoming years, which of course brings us back to the notion of respecting sovereign nations - and generally regardless of actions within their borders. But either which way, I don't think 'keeping the U.S. in check' is a good justification for Russia's invasion. We should be focused upon peace and preventing further unnecessary death, not revenge or tit for tat.

The most unfortunate thing about Bush is that he will never be held responsible for the devastating effects he brought upon the world. While I don't think you can justify Russia's invasion of Georgia by comparing it to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, you can certainly blame Russia's invasion of Georgia on the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
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Re: always on my mind

Post by eumaas »

I support the self-determination of Abkhazia and S. Ossetia against Georgia. I support the sovereign rights of Georgia against Russian invasion.
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Re: always on my mind

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Re: always on my mind

Post by Red star 69 »

The best report I´ve seen on this was on Al Jazeera/english (is that spellt right? Probably not!).

Basically the sentiment was this: Why are we all being conned into thinking that the Russians, the US or the EU realy give a fat rats arse about Georgia, it´s people or any of it´s ethnic minoroties?

Once again IT`S OIL! Georgia has no natural resources of it´s own but... The main oil pipeline (that doesn´t run through Russia) from the Caspian to the Black sea runs right through the middle of the country. Or does anyone believe that the EU and the US think "let´s invite our Georgian *friends* into NATO" because they´re all warm hearted chaps?

It´s all bollocks ´cos the next step is getting them into the EU so the Limeys (of which I am one), the Krauts, the Frogs & co, no longer have to even pay import duty on the 1 million barrels a day that flows towards us.

Of course the Russians are having none of it as they´re just getting used to the good life that comes with oil & gas production and this stuff is coming out of thier sphere of influence.

I didn´t want to write this much on the subject because they (polititians) are all lying bastards anyway (G8 leaders more than most). But the report realy was quite good :approve:
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Re: always on my mind

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Red star 69 wrote:Once again IT`S OIL!
Yeah, you're probably right. The price keeps going up in more ways than one.
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Post by dpwolf »

Is War With Russia on the Agenda?
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

Thinking about the massive failure of the US media to report truthfully is sobering. The United States, bristling with nuclear weapons and pursuing a policy of world hegemony, has a population that is kept in the dark--indeed brainwashed--about the most important and most dangerous events of our time.

The power of the Israel Lobby is an important component of keeping Americans in the dark. Recently I watched a documentary that demonstrates the control that the Israel Lobby exercises over Americans’ view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The documentary is available here.

As a result of the US media’s one-sided coverage, few Americans are aware that for decades Israel has been ethnically cleansing Palestinians from their homes and lands under protection of America’s veto in the United Nations. Instead, the dispossessed Palestinians are portrayed as mindless terrorists who attack innocent Israel.

If one reads Israeli newspapers, such as Haaretz, or publications from Israeli organizations, such as the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, one gets a radically different view of the situation than the propagandistic version delivered by US media and evangelical pulpits.

Most Americans know of the 2000 attack by Muslim terrorists on the USS Cole in Aden harbor that resulted in 17 dead and 39 wounded American sailors. But few have heard of Israel’s 1967 attack on the USS Liberty that left 34 American sailors dead and 174 wounded. Pressured by the Israel Lobby, President Johnson ordered Admiral McCain, father of the Republican presidential nominee, to cover up the attack. To this day there never has been a congressional investigation.

The failure of the American media is again evident in the coverage of the Georgian-Russian conflict. The US media presented the conflict as a Russian invasion of Georgia, whereas in actual fact the American and Israeli trained and equipped Georgian military launched a sneak attack to kill and to drive the Russian population out of South Ossetia, a separatist province.

Russian peacekeepers, together with Georgian ones, had been stationed in South Ossetia since the early 1990s. On orders from Mikheil Saakashvili, the American puppet “president” of Georgia, the Georgian peacekeepers turned their weapons on the unsuspecting Russian peacekeepers and murdered them.

This action by Saakashvili, elected with money from the neoconservative National Endowment for Democracy, an election-rigging tool of US hegemony, was a war crime. In truth, the Russians should have hung Saakashvili, as he is far more guilty than was Saddam Hussein. But it is Russia, not Saakashvili, that the US media has demonized.

Americans have become perfect subjects for George Orwell’s Big Brother. They sit stupidly in front of the TV news or the New York Times or Washington Post and absorb the lies fed to them. What is wrong with Americans? Why do they put up with it? Are Americans the nation of sheep that Judge Andrew P. Napolitano says they are? Americans flaunt “freedom and democracy” and live under a Ministry of Propaganda.

Two decades ago, President Reagan reached agreement with Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev to end the dangerous cold war. But every one of Reagan’s successors has sought to pick a new fight with Russia. In violation of the agreement, NATO has been taken to Russia’s borders, and the US is determined to put former constituent parts of Russia herself into NATO. In an effort to neutralize Russia’s nuclear deterrent and compromise her independence, the US is putting anti-ballistic missile bases on Russia’s borders.

The gratuitously aggressive US military policy toward Russia will lead to nuclear war. I am confident that if Americans elect John McCain, or the Republicans steal another presidential election, there will be nuclear war in the second decade of the 21st century. The neocon lies, propaganda, macho flag-waving, and use of US foreign policy in the interests of a few military-security firms, oil companies, and Israel are all leading in that direction.

The November election is perhaps the last chance to avoid nuclear war. But the opportunity might already have been missed. The Republicans have chosen as their candidate one of the most ignorant warmongers alive. The Democrats’ choice was between one of the most divisive women in America and a man of mixed race with a funny name. Considering American’s taste for war, the Democratic candidate could fail to defeat the GOP war candidate.

Many Americans will vote against Obama because he is black. Why does mixed ancestry confer the black label? If America’s population was predominantly black, would Obama be considered white?

Race and propaganda are more likely to determine the outcome of the November election than any awareness or consideration of real issues by voters.

The real issues are suffocated by the media. The American middle class is being destroyed by jobs offshoring and work visas for foreigners, while the incomes of the super rich are soaring. The US dollar’s reserve currency status is eroded. The US is massively in debt at home and abroad. Health insurance is unaffordable for the vast majority of the population. Injured veterans are being nickeled and dimed, while Halliburton’s profits escalate. Americans are losing their homes, while the US government bails out banks. Wars with Iran, Russia, and China are being planned in order to secure US hegemony.

Americans no longer have a government that is for the people and by the people. They have a government for and by special interests and an insane ideology.

But Americans have war, which lets them take out all their frustrations, resentments, and disappointments on “Muslim terrorists” and “Russian aggressors.” Few Americans are disturbed that 1.25 million Iraqis and an unknown number of Afghans have died as a result of American invasions based on Bush regime lies and deceptions. Even Americans, like Senator Biden, Obama’s selection for vice president, who understand that the wars are based on lies, still want the US to win. So, it was all a mistake and a deception, but let’s win anyway and keep on killing.

I know people who still complain that the US did not nuke North Vietnam. When I ask why Vietnam should have been nuked, they reply, “if we had nuked them we would have won.”

What would America have won? The answer is world loathing and the loss of the cold war.

For many Americans, war is like a sports contest in which they take vicarious pleasure and cheer on their side to victory. Millions of Americans are still bitter that “the liberal media” and war protesters caused America to lose the Vietnam war, and they are determined that this won’t happen again. These Americans have no realization that there was no more reason for the US to be fighting in Vietnam 40 years ago than to be fighting today in Iraq and Afghanistan or tomorrow in Iran.

Obama, if elected, is no guarantee against nuclear war. Obama has shown that he is as much under the Israel Lobby’s thumb as McCain. Obama’s foreign affairs advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, is not a neocon, but he was born in Warsaw, Poland, and has the Pole’s animosity toward Russia. The Bush administration has already changed US war doctrine to permit preemptive nuclear attack. With the US government determined to ring Russia with puppet states and military bases, war is inevitable.

Presidential appointees face confirmation in the Senate. Any of Obama’s appointees who might be out of step with plans for US and Israeli hegemony could expect opposition from large corporations and the Israel Lobby. There is no assurance that an Obama administration would not be positioned on “the issues” by the same special interests that have positioned the Bush administration.

Americans are filled with hubris, not with knowledge. They have no awareness of the calamity that their government’s pursuit of hegemony is bringing to themselves and to life on earth.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions. He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@yahoo.com

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08262008.html

see also

http://www.counterpunch.org/lendman08252008.html
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eumaas
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Re: always on my mind

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7715735.stm
Thousands of opposition activists have demonstrated in the Georgian capital, Tbilisi - their first major protest since the conflict with Russia.

Critics have accused President Mikhail Saakashvili of starting a war with Russia that Georgia could not win.

"We are starting a new wave of civil confrontation, and we will not give up until new elections are called," opposition leader Kakha Kukava said.

A year ago opposition rallies were broken up by police.

Rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannon were used in a crackdown that ended days of protests but opened the government up to accusations of heavy-handedness.

Following those protests, Mr Saakashvili went on to call snap elections, which he won.
Anybody notice that Saakashvili's face is inherently funny?
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I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

dpwolf
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Re: always on my mind

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Both funny ha-ha and funny weird.
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