The Dictator observations thread.

Politics and other such topical creams.
Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jun 2018, 7:00am

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/0 ... -dead.html

A good point made that the paranoid fantasies that drove the "family values" movement—that sinister government forces would swoop in and separate and destroy families—has actually come to pass. But because it's not happening to them—chiefly white evangelicals—they're cool with it. Suggesting, again and as always, non-whites aren't considered actually human in their eyes.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by WestwayKid » 21 Jun 2018, 7:07am

eumaas wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:41am

Macron is a loathsome prick and admired by American liberals for some reason.
I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jun 2018, 7:22am

WestwayKid wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:07am
eumaas wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:41am

Macron is a loathsome prick and admired by American liberals for some reason.
I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:
His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jun 2018, 7:42am

Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:22am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:07am
eumaas wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:41am

Macron is a loathsome prick and admired by American liberals for some reason.
I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:
His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jun 2018, 10:04am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:42am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:22am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:07am
eumaas wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:41am

Macron is a loathsome prick and admired by American liberals for some reason.
I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:
His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
It's more the allyship of a playground bully with a hypocrite who wants them onside.
Ain't no man in this land
Who gets up and works for fifty grand


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Dr. Medulla
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jun 2018, 11:16am

Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 10:04am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:42am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:22am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:07am
eumaas wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 11:41am

Macron is a loathsome prick and admired by American liberals for some reason.
I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:
His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
It's more the allyship of a playground bully with a hypocrite who wants them onside.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but I wouldn't call that being an ally. Alliance with America—the state and economy—but not Trump and what he represents.
Endut! Hoch Hech!

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jun 2018, 11:59am

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 11:16am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 10:04am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:42am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:22am
WestwayKid wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:07am


I think we're so desperate for anyone who even seemingly 1) stands up to Trump and/or 2) makes him look like the fool he is... :meh:
His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
It's more the allyship of a playground bully with a hypocrite who wants them onside.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but I wouldn't call that being an ally. Alliance with America—the state and economy—but not Trump and what he represents.
I'm not trying to score points or be clever when I ask what the difference is at this point?
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jun 2018, 12:11pm

Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 11:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 11:16am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 10:04am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:42am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:22am


His position and interests will always make him Trump's ally.
Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
It's more the allyship of a playground bully with a hypocrite who wants them onside.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but I wouldn't call that being an ally. Alliance with America—the state and economy—but not Trump and what he represents.
I'm not trying to score points or be clever when I ask what the difference is at this point?
That until Trump and for the past, say, seventy years, America has played the international game as one of having shared interests with, chiefly western Europe. Whether that was the welfare state/anti-Communist consensus or neoliberalism, there was basic agreement, even if Europe often grumbled about America's prerogative. Trump is distinctly different in his unilateralism and rejection of core neoliberal/globalization principles (free trade, erosion of national borders). France et al want neoliberal America back. They see the "real" America—the civil service, big business, greater American character—as true to that neoliberalism and Trump a perversion or deviance. It's hard to see that as a desire to ally with Trump, but they do desire to reforge the alliance with America under the old settled terms because America is still significant enough to fuck up the greater free trade structures.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jun 2018, 12:43pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 12:11pm
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 11:59am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 11:16am
Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 10:04am
Dr. Medulla wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 7:42am


Assuming there's only two sides in play and one is the working class. But on many issues, Trump is no ally of the neoliberals. His protectionism and overt group-based politics runs contrary to the neoliberal worldview. Its America's influence that other leaders have to play footsy with.
It's more the allyship of a playground bully with a hypocrite who wants them onside.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but I wouldn't call that being an ally. Alliance with America—the state and economy—but not Trump and what he represents.
I'm not trying to score points or be clever when I ask what the difference is at this point?
That until Trump and for the past, say, seventy years, America has played the international game as one of having shared interests with, chiefly western Europe. Whether that was the welfare state/anti-Communist consensus or neoliberalism, there was basic agreement, even if Europe often grumbled about America's prerogative. Trump is distinctly different in his unilateralism and rejection of core neoliberal/globalization principles (free trade, erosion of national borders). France et al want neoliberal America back. They see the "real" America—the civil service, big business, greater American character—as true to that neoliberalism and Trump a perversion or deviance. It's hard to see that as a desire to ally with Trump, but they do desire to reforge the alliance with America under the old settled terms because America is still significant enough to fuck up the greater free trade structures.
Short of some magnificent change, I think we're more likely to see the Macrons and Merkels replaced with a xenophobic authoritarian* than get someone in the White House who will make for any meaningful rollback of Trump's policies. The international brotherhood of neoliberals may not like what the President is doing at home and abroad, but they'll go along with it with McCain-esque unhappy noises because they'll always wet their pants in awe of power. Ally is maybe too strong a word but they're much closer to that than foe.

*May has the xenophobes zipped up in the UK since UKIP simultaneously had its greated success and farted itself into irrelevancy with Brexit. She'll be replaced with either an elitist landowning Tory or Corbyn's pasteurized socialism.
Last edited by Silent Majority on 21 Jun 2018, 12:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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eumaas
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by eumaas » 21 Jun 2018, 12:45pm

I just think Macron is a pompous, egotistical prick who only cares about business people. Also racist.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by eumaas » 21 Jun 2018, 12:46pm

Not a Merkel fan either, but her personality at least isn't as abrasive as Macron's.
I feel that there is a fascistic element, for example, in the Rolling Stones . . .
— Morton Feldman

I've studied the phenomenon of neo-provincialism in self-isolating online communities but this place takes the fucking cake.
— Clashy

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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Silent Majority » 21 Jun 2018, 12:52pm

eumaas wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 12:46pm
Not a Merkel fan either, but her personality at least isn't as abrasive as Macron's.
She 's got an air of measured competency that she's maintained (at least ausland) for fifteen years, so she isn't as actively irritating as Manu.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Flex » 21 Jun 2018, 12:55pm

Merkel usually strikes me as probably the best the neoliberal consensus can do. Like, if you're invested in the economic and political ordering of the last 20-30 years, you point to her as the cream of the crop. Which I largely take as an indictment of said consensus, but there are some obviously worse alternatives.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 21 Jun 2018, 12:57pm

Silent Majority wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 12:43pm
Short of some magnificent change, I think we're more likely to see the Macrons and Merkels replaced with a xenophobic authoritarian* than get someone in the White House who will make for any meaningful rollback of Trump's policies. The international brotherhood of neoliberals may not like what the President is doing at home and abroad, but they'll go along with it with McCain-esque unhappy noises because they'll always wet their pants in awe of power. Ally is maybe too strong a word but they're much closer to that than foe.

*May has the xenophobes zipped up in the UK since UKIP simultaneously had its greated success and farted itself into irrelevancy with Brexit. She'll be replaced with either an elitist landowning Tory or Corbyn's pasteurized socialism.
Oh, certainly. Brexit and Trump signaled a rejection of neoliberalism, which was already crumbling. What comes next is something more fascist or more social democratic. I ain't optimistic which way things will turn, even if the younger generations are more open to the latter. But the days of asserting the free market can and will solve all our problems—Thatcher's "there is no alternative"—is in eclipse.
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Re: The Dictator observations thread.

Post by Dr. Medulla » 22 Jun 2018, 7:47am

"Power is the ultimate diuretic." - Kissinger's less widely known observation about influence
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