This is a fucking outrage.

[Wolter]

There are NO WORDS.

[Jimmy Jazz]

This is terrible. And thanks to the American media this is the first I've heard about any of this. That beach photo is the type of prejudice you just don't think of being capable of happening in this day and age.

[eumaas]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

[classof77]

Well...I've read several stories (including the beach one) on cnn.com; and heard several more on NPR. I would say the mainstream media is reporting it--Americans just aren't getting very outraged by it (don't want to spoil the Italian holiday or can't imagine that such lovely people as the Italians could succumb--again--to xenophobia). And what the hell happened to the Italian left?

[Wolter]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

I've seen some of that, too.

[Dr. Medulla]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

I've seen some of that, too.

Funny what happens when attitudes towards education encourage the belief that real history began the day you were born, so everything that came before is irrelevant.

[eumaas]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

I've seen some of that, too.

Funny what happens when attitudes towards education encourage the belief that real history began the day you were born, so everything that came before is irrelevant.

On another forum what people are saying to me comes as "well it's no worse than Rwanda, Darfur, etc you just care because it's the first world"

[eumaas]

It's a testament to the quality of this forum that you all care so much.

[BostonBeaneater]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

I've seen some of that, too.

Funny what happens when attitudes towards education encourage the belief that real history began the day you were born, so everything that came before is irrelevant.

On another forum what people are saying to me comes as "well it's no worse than Rwanda, Darfur, etc you just care because it's the first world"

I think that this goes on in the First World makes it more striking. We are not far from it here. It doesn't take much more than a declining economy and xenophobia to get the rumble started.

[Dr. Medulla]

I've tried discussing this with a few people and they're not really understanding the scope and implications of it.

I've seen some of that, too.

Funny what happens when attitudes towards education encourage the belief that real history began the day you were born, so everything that came before is irrelevant.

On another forum what people are saying to me comes as "well it's no worse than Rwanda, Darfur, etc you just care because it's the first world"

I think that this goes on in the First World makes it more striking. We are not far from it here. It doesn't take much more than a declining economy and xenophobia to get the rumble started.

There might be an element of racism to it—them Africans are still jungle savages, no matter how much you tries to civilize them—but it's nevertheless striking that you can't cite as easily colonialism and imperialism as contexts. Well, yes, you can, but in a different form from how we normally use those concepts. I think people would be naive to think that places like France or Holland aren't watching Italy's efforts at controlling a "problem" population to see how well it could be applied to, say, their Muslim troublemakers. How much did recent American history influence the Italians in their recent legislation? How much authoritarianism are people willing to put up with for the illusion of security …

[eumaas]

I've seen some of that, too.

Funny what happens when attitudes towards education encourage the belief that real history began the day you were born, so everything that came before is irrelevant.

On another forum what people are saying to me comes as "well it's no worse than Rwanda, Darfur, etc you just care because it's the first world"

I think that this goes on in the First World makes it more striking. We are not far from it here. It doesn't take much more than a declining economy and xenophobia to get the rumble started.

There might be an element of racism to it—them Africans are still jungle savages, no matter how much you tries to civilize them—but it's nevertheless striking that you can't cite as easily colonialism and imperialism as contexts. Well, yes, you can, but in a different form from how we normally use those concepts. I think people would be naive to think that places like France or Holland aren't watching Italy's efforts at controlling a "problem" population to see how well it could be applied to, say, their Muslim troublemakers. How much did recent American history influence the Italians in their recent legislation? How much authoritarianism are people willing to put up with for the illusion of security …

Right. If this sets a precedent as being acceptable, it's very dangerous.

And it's not like the Roma are really new--there has been immigration but many Roma are Italian citizens and have family roots in Italy stretching back a long fucking time. Anti-immigrant, anti-crime is the pretext but it seems at base to be racism since citizens are being targeted as well.

[eumaas]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/sto ... d=10524241

Nedo Fiano, a Holocaust survivor and Jewish intellectual, said he was dismayed when the authorities launched their census in Milan last month, where many inhabitants had Italian citizenship. "When I hear a story like that, I see myself wearing that Auschwitz uniform once more."

Amos Luzzatto, former president of the Unions of Jewish Communities in Italy, said: "The way gypsies are treated these days reminds me of my childhood under the Fascist regime."

[Dr. Medulla]

Spoke to my mother this afternoon. She was a teenager in Holland during the 30s and said that the past five years have seemed like a very eerie replay, right down to the general acquiescence of people who think that, indeed, all their rights are being curtailed for their own good.

[eumaas]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7561762.stm

The Italian government has lashed out at an influential Catholic magazine which suggested fascism might be resurfacing within the government.

An editorial in the Famiglia Cristiana weekly is critical of government policy towards the Roma community.

Two cabinet ministers said the tone of the article was "irresponsible".

The Vatican has also distanced itself from the publication with a papal spokesman saying it "does not reflect the views of the Holy See".

In an article due to appear in the magazine next week, editorialist Beppe Del Colle writes: "Let's hope their fears are unfounded that another form of fascism is looming here".

[JennyB]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7561762.stm

The Italian government has lashed out at an influential Catholic magazine which suggested fascism might be resurfacing within the government.

An editorial in the Famiglia Cristiana weekly is critical of government policy towards the Roma community.

Two cabinet ministers said the tone of the article was "irresponsible".

The Vatican has also distanced itself from the publication with a papal spokesman saying it "does not reflect the views of the Holy See".

In an article due to appear in the magazine next week, editorialist Beppe Del Colle writes: "Let's hope their fears are unfounded that another form of fascism is looming here".

You know things are getting scary when the Vatican calls you fascist.