Happy Hiroshima Day!

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eumaas
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by eumaas »

BostonBeaneater wrote:
eumaas wrote:Actually, you've acknowledged that surrender was on the table, by acknowledging that in your view Truman was right to push for unconditional surrender.
Do you have Japanese quotes that say surrender was on the table? Quotes from 1945? Everyone frames things as they wish after the fact.
Got some now, I think. I'm not a WW2 historian so I don't have a lot of source material on hand.
There is ample evidence that the Japanese government was willing to surrender months before Aug. 6 if only it could keep its emperor. Much of this evidence is given in Alperovitz's book and much in Dennis D. Wainstock, The Decision to Drop the Atomic Bomb (Westport, CT: Praeger, 1996). Wainstock (pp. 22-23) tells of many attempts by the Japanese to clarify the terms and to make clear their willingness to surrender if they could only keep their emperor untouched. For example, on April 7, 1945, acting Foreign Minister Shigemitsu Mamoru asked Swedish Ambassador Widon Bagge in Tokyo "to ascertain what peace terms the United States and Britain had in mind." Shigemitsu emphasized that "the Emperor must not be touched." Bagge passed the message on to the U.S. government, but Secretary of State Edward Stettinius told the U.S. ambassador in Sweden to "show no interest or take any initiative in pursuit of this matter."[10]

So the Japanese government tried another route. On May 7, 1945, Masutard Inoue, counselor of the Japanese legation in Portugal, approached an agent of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS). Inoue asked the agent to contact the U.S. embassy and "find out exactly what they plan to do in the Far East." He expressed his fear that Japan would be smashed, and he emphasized, "there can be no unconditional surrender." The agent passed the message on, but nothing came of it.

Three times is a charm, goes the saying. But not for the hapless Japanese. On May 10, 1945, Gen. Onodera, Japan's military representative in Sweden, tried to get a member of Sweden's royal family to approach the Allies for a settlement. He emphasized also that Japan's government would not accept unconditional surrender and must be allowed to "save face." The U.S. government urged Sweden's government to let the matter drop.

But if you can't at first surrender, try, try again. On July 12, with almost four weeks to go before the horrible blast, Kojiro Kitamura, a representative of the Yokohama Specie Bank in Switzerland, told Per Jacobson, a Swedish adviser to the Bank for International Settlements, that he wanted to contact U.S. representatives and that the only condition Japan insisted on was that it keep its emperor. "He was acting with the consent of Shunichi Kase, the Japanese minister to Switzerland, and General Kiyotomi Okamoto, chief of Japanese European intelligence, and they were in direct contact with Tokyo."[11] On July 14, Jacobson met in Wiesbaden, Germany with OSS representative Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA) and relayed the message that Japan's main demand was "retention of the Emperor." Dulles passed the information to Stimson, but Stimson refused to act on it.
http://www.antiwar.com/henderson/?articleid=11405
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tepista
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by tepista »

Image
We reach the parts other combos cannot reach
We beach the beachheads other armies cannot beach
We speak the tongues other mouths cannot speak

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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Wolter »

tepista wrote:Image
I call bullshit. Everyone knows the A-bomb WOKE GODZILLA UP.
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tepista
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by tepista »

Wolter wrote:
I call bullshit. Everyone knows the A-bomb WOKE GODZILLA UP.
exactly, they didn't do their research.
We reach the parts other combos cannot reach
We beach the beachheads other armies cannot beach
We speak the tongues other mouths cannot speak

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

tepista wrote:
Wolter wrote:
I call bullshit. Everyone knows the A-bomb WOKE GODZILLA UP.
exactly, they didn't do their research.
"Weekly World News in made-up story shocker!" says Napoleon.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

BostonBeaneater
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by BostonBeaneater »

No sign of Gene since we nuked Maine.
Image
Image

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

BostonBeaneater wrote:Image
I beyond-love Nelson's rationale: "Gotta nuke somethin'."
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

SteveSatch
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by SteveSatch »

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Japan was extremely brutal in WWII.
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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Grading term papers for the next couple weeks. No fewer than a dozen about the atomic bombing of Japan. Early results are blandly supportive of annihilation.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Silent Majority »

I love that nobody engaged with Steve's trolling.
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Is ten times worse than prison


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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

Silent Majority wrote:I love that nobody engaged with Steve's trolling.
I don't mess with those who are obviously my moral superiors based on where they spend their Sundays.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

JennyB
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by JennyB »

Hiroshima day is also my birthday. Do with that information what you will.
Got a Rake? Sure!

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Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:Hiroshima day is also my birthday. Do with that information what you will.
Can I mail you these papers to grade? I seriously want to open a vein and get in a hot tub.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

JennyB
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by JennyB »

Dr. Medulla wrote:
JennyB wrote:Hiroshima day is also my birthday. Do with that information what you will.
Can I mail you these papers to grade? I seriously want to open a vein and get in a hot tub.
It depends on the topic of the papers.
Got a Rake? Sure!

IMCT: Inane Middle-Class Twats - Dr. M

" *sigh* it's right when they throw the penis pump out the window." -Hoy

Dr. Medulla
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Re: Happy Hiroshima Day!

Post by Dr. Medulla »

JennyB wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
JennyB wrote:Hiroshima day is also my birthday. Do with that information what you will.
Can I mail you these papers to grade? I seriously want to open a vein and get in a hot tub.
It depends on the topic of the papers.
It's only the Hiroshima ones that truly depress me.
"I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey-strong bowels were girded with strength, like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo dung." - Richard Nixon, Checkers Speech, abandoned early draft

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