The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

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Marky Dread
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Marky Dread » 13 May 2010, 6:26pm

eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Or selling fire arms. All these things in the hands of the wrong person can be lethal to others. If you wanna drink yourself stupid or smoke yourself mental or fire a gun at targets then you're going to find a way of doing so inspite of what any law may or may not say'

Just do what you do to yourself and don't hurt anybody else in the process, loved ones, innocent bystanders etc...

In answer to your question my reply is nothing.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Silent Majority » 13 May 2010, 6:42pm

eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by eumaas » 13 May 2010, 6:43pm

Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
Meth is highly addictive.

Booze doesn't exactly have a good track record either.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Silent Majority » 13 May 2010, 6:48pm

eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
Meth is highly addictive.

Booze doesn't exactly have a good track record either.
It's not exactly smack though, is it?
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Flex » 13 May 2010, 6:49pm

I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by eumaas » 13 May 2010, 7:01pm

Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
Meth is highly addictive.

Booze doesn't exactly have a good track record either.
It's not exactly smack though, is it?
I'm pretty sure booze kills more every year than smack, buddy.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Silent Majority » 13 May 2010, 7:03pm

Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality. Is it immoral to hand over the loaded gun for your own financial gain? I think so.
'But also: hey dude, you can just go looking for more glasses. They're all free now. '

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Flex » 13 May 2010, 7:04pm

Silent Majority wrote:
Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality. Is it immoral to hand over the loaded gun for your own financial gain? I think so.
Are bartenders guilty of belonging to an immoral profession? More people die of alcohol abuse than heroin overdoses every year.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Marky Dread » 13 May 2010, 7:04pm

eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:This is actually an interesting moral question and a good use of the thread: is dealing drugs intrinsically immoral? If so, what distinguishes a drug dealer in a moral sense from a barman?
Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
Meth is highly addictive.

Booze doesn't exactly have a good track record either.
It's not exactly smack though, is it?
I'm pretty sure booze kills more every year than smack, buddy.
Acceptability is to blame.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by eumaas » 13 May 2010, 7:07pm

Marky Dread wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Silent Majority wrote: Only for heroin and crack. Everything else is recreation, they're poison.
Meth is highly addictive.

Booze doesn't exactly have a good track record either.
It's not exactly smack though, is it?
I'm pretty sure booze kills more every year than smack, buddy.
Acceptability is to blame.
If we had a culture that lauded heroin use--like say if instead of taking a drink at the end of each Law and Order, they shot up--then it would affect usage rates, sure.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Dr. Medulla » 13 May 2010, 7:07pm

Silent Majority wrote:
Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality.
I don't buy the notion that suicide is cowardly. If you should be able to live your life the way you want, that includes deciding when you want to check out. No one knows what goes on in someone else's head, so I could never declare suicide a cowardly action.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Flex » 13 May 2010, 7:18pm

A thought: I'm not sure that acceptability is necessarily a negative regarding death rates. When one looks at heroin overdoses, the majority are caused by taking heroin when other drugs or alcohol are already in the system. Some legitimization of heroin use, combined with improved education on how to use it more safely could actually lead to lower death-rate.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by eumaas » 13 May 2010, 7:21pm

Dr. Medulla wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality.
I don't buy the notion that suicide is cowardly. If you should be able to live your life the way you want, that includes deciding when you want to check out. No one knows what goes on in someone else's head, so I could never declare suicide a cowardly action.
I agree that suicide isn't necessarily cowardly. For one thing, it's highly unlikely that there's an afterlife, so extinguishing your consciousness under those circumstances would sometimes require taking a risk, which to me is opposed to cowardice.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by Marky Dread » 13 May 2010, 7:45pm

eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality.
I don't buy the notion that suicide is cowardly. If you should be able to live your life the way you want, that includes deciding when you want to check out. No one knows what goes on in someone else's head, so I could never declare suicide a cowardly action.
I agree that suicide isn't necessarily cowardly. For one thing, it's highly unlikely that there's an afterlife, so extinguishing your consciousness under those circumstances would sometimes require taking a risk, which to me is opposed to cowardice.
I think people call it cowardly when faced with the option of carrying on is the harder option.

The only thing I dislike about suicide is the selfish way in which some choose to end their lives. In the 80's while working for the Postal service offloading mail trains one xmas I was awaiting the arrival of the next mail train. The platform anouncer called across the tannoy the next train was a through train (non stopping) as this train passed through the station a guy ran out from behind me and threw himself in front of the train his blood shot across me onto my face and clothes as he was dragged down the line.
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Re: The John Terry Moral Reasoning Thread

Post by eumaas » 13 May 2010, 7:47pm

Marky Dread wrote:
eumaas wrote:
Dr. Medulla wrote:
Silent Majority wrote:
Flex wrote:I guess the question (leaving aside whether we have a moral obligation to obey the law) is it intrinsically immoral to take heroin or crack (or whatever your anti-drug du jour is). If it isn't, is it still immoral to supply it? If it is, what makes it immoral?
Is it immoral to shoot yourself in the head? No, it's a cowardly escape from reality.
I don't buy the notion that suicide is cowardly. If you should be able to live your life the way you want, that includes deciding when you want to check out. No one knows what goes on in someone else's head, so I could never declare suicide a cowardly action.
I agree that suicide isn't necessarily cowardly. For one thing, it's highly unlikely that there's an afterlife, so extinguishing your consciousness under those circumstances would sometimes require taking a risk, which to me is opposed to cowardice.
I think people call it cowardly when faced with the option of carrying on is the harder option.

The only thing I dislike about suicide is the selfish way in which some choose to end their lives. In the 80's while working for the Postal service offloading mail trains one xmas I was awaiting the arrival of the next mail train. The platform anouncer called across the tannoy the next train was a through train (non stopping) as this train passed through the station a guy ran out from behind me and threw himself in front of the train his blood shot across me onto my face and clothes as he was dragged down the line.
I agree there. Best to do it in a cleanly, considerate fashion.
"The only thing that really occurs to me that I can say on this is to point out how fascinating it is that the Hassan-i-Sabbah archetype keeps turning up over and over again ... He disappears up into the mountains and is never seen again. Believe me, he'll never be seen again. He'll live forever because of that."

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